Debating a Christian
December 9, 2016 at 9:32 am
(This post was last modified: December 9, 2016 at 12:56 pm by Losty.)
Debating a Christian
DISCLAIMER - You are about to read over 12 thousand words, do not blame me for the girlfriend you will lose.
Hi, I'm new to this and so I'm not sure if there is already a thread for this, but whatever. I just want to share this experience with like minded individuals. For privacy reasons, none of our details will be included.
Basically, i had an argument with this random guy over email that i met in the comment section of a YouTube video.
Please excuse any spelling or grammar errors i may have made, i was hyper with adrenaline when typing as I'm passionate about the topic. Warning also, i may have been a bit too direct or patronising towards this guy, but as you will see, it was justified. Spoiler - The guy is insane. This story is also very long, sorry about that.
Backstory: Ive always admired the works of Hitchens and Harris, and most recently NonStampCollector. Ive always sort of questioned the minds of religious people, because i have a great passion for sociology and philosophy. But it has always stopped there. Until now. I have recently discovered the Christians you only hear about in atheist folklore. They fear the word “science” and are ignorant of its beautiful works - specifically the works that debunk the Bible (which is most of science). They use the “evolution is just a theory” argument without realising that gravity and atoms are also scientific theories. They only reject what challenges their beliefs. This is the definition of ignorance. A word I now find myself saying far too often.
So here we go:
After exchanging emails on YouTube, he sent me this:
Hey! Please take time to read the document first, and then look at the videos with the evidence. It is all the evidence you will ever need! God is calling you and wants you to be part of his children. This is not of my accord but of my Father's accord, that you might know him! Have a wonderful day man!
The document attached was as follows:
Advice - don't watch the videos, its not worth it, trust me
I replied, at first quite formally, but you will notice that the later emails are pretty savage:
Heres the answer to your first question, quoted from the Big Bang Theory Website
“Big Bang Theory - The Premise
The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.
According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.
After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang"), expanded and cooled, going from very, very small and very, very hot, to the size and temperature of our current universe. It continues to expand and cool to this day and we are inside of it: incredible creatures living on a unique planet, circling a beautiful star clustered together with several hundred billion other stars in a galaxy soaring through the cosmos, all of which is inside of an expanding universe that began as an infinitesimal singularity which appeared out of nowhere for reasons unknown. This is the Big Bang theory.
Big Bang Theory - Common Misconceptions
There are many misconceptions surrounding the Big Bang theory. For example, we tend to imagine a giant explosion. Experts however say that there was no explosion; there was (and continues to be) an expansion. Rather than imagining a balloon popping and releasing its contents, imagine a balloon expanding: an infinitesimally small balloon expanding to the size of our current universe.”
Heres the answer to your second question
You have truly annoyed me with this, every (and i sincerely mean every) transition from the common ancestor to ours has been found. It is a common fallacy to deny it from christians, however a simple google search will show you. Go to any museum in the world and you will find each transition.
Heres a funny video that represents this stupid christian argument, *link removed*
Heres the answer to your third question
Im afraid you have it the wrong way around. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The burden of proof is on you. I can say unicorns exist, but i must prove it if i want it to hold any validity.
Heres the answer to your forth question
Google it, you ignorant fool. This is such a simpleton question, you really think science has left a obvious giant hole of controversy like this? Surprise, evolution is not a theory (at least the type of theory you seem to deem it as).
Heres the answer to your fifth question
All those people you listed are thousands of years older than Jesus, so no shit. You think Jesus is special, how come the only records of him were recorded 30 years after his death, the average life span of a human back then, so therefore most of his great “miracles” are misconstrued and exaggerated by second hand witnesses. In fact, there is more evidence for Mohammed than there is for Jesus. If you research Julius Caesar, you would know that he was regarded as a god among men who could grant miracles, no different from how jesus is portrayed, only, many historians recorded Caesars life unlike Jesus, and so we know these beliefs are untrue.
Heres the answer to your sixth question
Believe it or not, i have actually done the ouija board in my old house. However, even if spirit and demons do exist (which they don’t, they are made up to scare simpletons into obeying their masters), it still doesn't mean that the Judea Christian God that you worship exists, it may be another god, unknown or forgotten, or maybe we are just playing a trick on our brains. When people seek god, they tend to attach and credit him to every thing incredible and great, or use him to explain everything out of the ordinary, or fit him in to explain the unexplained. Whilst I cannot disprove demonic spirits etc, i can explain the origins of natural phenomenas or superstitions, and explain why it is impossible for an almighty, omnipotent and willing god to exist.
You think these questions have no materialistic answers, but you don't realise that they have been answered countless times before. Google it. Only an ignorant fool that knows nothing about the science that they are slandering, makes these arguments. You do realise that anyone from any other religion would bring up these points to prove their religion too? These points are stupid and do not prove that any deity exists, let alone Yahweh.
It is not that Jesus may have lied, its that his story has been exaggerated and believed. Jesus was a real man, i have no doubt, but he was not the son of god, certainly not the god represented in the old testament. The bible has been proven wrong countless times by many intellectuals, but you only read/watch/listen to what you want, which only further affirms your belief through socialisation. Let me guess, you were born and raised in the southern states of america. Im guessing you voted for trump (dont bring up politics, i really don't give a shit about the presidency, it is just a point I'm making). Im guessing you went to church every Sunday with your overly religious family (well actually I'm not guessing, i know). Be truthful to yourself (as your god wants you to be), you were raised in one of the most religious states in america, probably Mississippi, Utah or Alabama (fun fact, also 3 of the dumbest states in america by IQ) where you affirmed your beliefs ever so often. You now find yourself puzzled and confused by the large uprising of Atheism and so you challenge it, in an attempt to continue convincing yourself that you are following the right path. You take large leaps of hypocrisy and ignorance to ensure this is done, so egotistically, that you see little of your stupidity. Deny it, i don't care, but don't make up bullshit in an attempt to affirm and press your beliefs on yourself and others. You seem like a sincere guy, so take what i say in an unbiased way and look at it in a social view (as hard as it may be).
God and Jesus are not here I'm afraid, believe it or not there is a lot of logic behind the typical atheist statement “if they were real, why is life so unfair”. Your christian based answer would be “freewill”, this is a silly answer though, simply read the bible, all these great events in the book are always intervened or caused by a physical god who shows himself, a god that intervenes is not granting freewill. If you were instead to say “God does intervene, but he prevents atrocities before they happen, and so we never see him”, then why the fuck is Africa so impoverish, one of the largest christian continents. Does god not show himself anymore? Did he give up on us? I thought he created a huge flood that wiped out all the sinners to solve this problem (the only flood that has no trace of ever happening). You’d then say “God works in mysterious ways, some things he cannot change”, then why the fuck are you glorifying him? if he had the power to create the universe in 6 days, why cant he change a few little details? why did he create errors, evil and cruelty in his world? You'd then say “we are born of sin”, let me ask you, do you really think that the 20 thousand children that die every day, deserve it? Another argument of yours would be, “Well he is with us in spirit, he grants everyone of us morality and his love, how we accept it defines our fait”, no, look up feral children, socialisation has left them far from what our norms deem as moral. We are who we are, because of how we are socialised, it has nothing to do with god. You were raised with christianity, and so you believe it. A feral child is raised by animals, so he/she acts like an animal. A serial killer/psychopath is raised by broken people, so he/she thinks killing is a norm. You will struggle to find a response to this, and so you'd ask for evidence (evidence that you can find yourself), or you'd say “well without God, you have no meaning to life”, this statement is foolish, are you saying that your meaning to life is to fear god and fear his judgement? How petty. My meaning to life is no different to what you believe inside, i treasure happiness, justice, freedom and equality, that is my meaning to life.
Those wonderful videos were suggested to you by your youtube recommendations, not god, lol.
These videos are ridiculous. The “mathematic probability” of god existing, is no more than the existence of Zeus and Odin. “Evolution proves creationism”, lol you just said you don't believe in evolution. The bible says that humans were created as humans, if you accept evolution, you are denying your gods word. The problem with most christians, is that they take everything science knows about the origins of everything, and they root it to a god. No, thats not how science works. Science has proved that these events happen on their own without any extraterrestrial support. The argument “DNA is so complex, it cant form by itself” is an insult. These are the arguments of the uneducated. Look up all this shit and you will know how nature can guide itself to “miracles”. I do not doubt that the bible has changed, if it did, the verses that claim slavery is permitted, homosexuals should die, women should be suppressed, a rape victim should marry their rapist, incest is possible, etc would be removed. The contradictions would also be removed, see this video for a few of them *link removed*
Again, you are watching what you want to watch to affirm your beliefs. If you watch only atheist videos, you would be an atheist. Christians are only christians because they have been exposed to the bible and its culture from before the age of reason.
Heres two more videos, i don't want to plague you with hundreds of videos, I'm gonna be snappy with it, and show you what you should see. If you are honest (which i have no doubt that you are), watch these videos, they are relevant to your future.
*link removed*
*link removed*
You will feel insulted watching these, but not as insulted as how scientist feel when their work is slandered and misconstrued to make room for a deity. If you have any questions or you want to challenge what I've said, be my guest.
I was quite happy with my last statement there. He replies with the same old arguments we have all heard, and then does a sort of “appeal to emotion” at the end, which i found pretty funny:
In regards to the universe singularity theory, there is no way life could have came about if a Divine authority hadn't initialized. Something or someone had to start it, whether it be Zeus or Odin, somebody started it. In fact, if you plug in the odds into a calculator, there is literally a 0% chance we came from random chance. Just like you wouldn't expect for something to come out of nothing, unless you put that something in their, it is the same thing with the one(s) who put the materials in the universe. There is no evidence for evolution, we don't find minature humans 3 inches tall, to 4, to 5, ....... to 60 inches tall, such ridiculous leap of faith. All we have ever found has been complete full figures, not a procedural gainage of height. If it is undeniable that Jesus existed, why would he be lying? You've heard of the miracles he worked, the love he spread, etc. Either he was a lunatic, or he was indeed the Son of God. True or false, no in between. Ask him, and he will answer you. The reason people suffer is because they have abandoned the laws of God, people who let satan rule their lives dwell in sickness, poverty, and famine. And I guarantee you that those devout Christians in third world countries are getting their daily bread every day. Suffering also builds character, Jesus was perfect, yet he was born into flesh to perfect him in his ways. And you are acting as if death is a bad thing. I am willing, rather to be absent from the body and be present with The Lord, which is far better. But obviously I will not kill myself, I will leave when The Lord permits me. You see, when you walk in The Light, which is Jesus Christ, you know where you are headed! Those who do not believe in The Lord, have no idea where they are headed! I can guarantee you 100% that if I die today, I will be a VERY happy man, because I no longer have to dwell in such a filthy world, I will be with Christ and my beloved family members who have moved on. If Jesus was a lie, then demons would not flee in his name! Search for an exorcist, and ask him if you can accompany him to his exorcism, you will see for yourself. The name Jesus carries power not by coincidence, but by virtue of God himself. And no, I did not grow up going to Church every sunday, in fact, throughout childhood I went to church maybe a max of 5 times. One of these gaps being a laps of 10 years. For 6 years I was an atheist, even cursing at God! Do you think I am here because of random hope! Absolutely not! That is the difference, I know God is real. I searched for God and he showed me he was real. You have faith that God is not real. Are you seriously willing to gamble your destiny in the afterlife based on intellectual elitism? Read The Bible, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. I watch atheist videos all the time actually, and my faith only increases every time, that is why I watch them. The videos you provided are not evidence, they are opinions from fallible man. I have presented evidence, and nothing but evidence to you. I know you have not watched them all, it will take a few days. But I urge to look at them, The Lord wants to save your life. Why would I be lying to you? This that I speak is not of my accord but of my Father's accord. You have a chance now, to abide in his love, in the future you will not have this option. I have made it succinct enough for you..... ask The Lord himself but with a humble, and forgiving heart... he will show you
God Bless you brother, this is The Truth of Life
This kind of triggered me, as you will notice, its all out savage from here:
How do you know the universe needs a creator? Who are you, why are you so special? How come you know what every scientist EVER does not know? Why are you so special? Answer: Your fucking not. Your delusional, and your "opinion" on how the universe works will never be taken seriously without empirical evidence. There is a reason why evolution and the big bang are grouped with words such as "science" "objective reasoning". There is a reason why religion is not in this group. There is a reason why only 7% of the science community identifies as religious. Your ignorance only raises more questions - how was god created? how does god bend the laws of nature? why does god do fuck all? I think it is evident that you dont know what evolution is, here is a really basic video explaining it *link removed*
You seem conflicted to why Jesus would lie, but you clearly didnt understand what i was saying. Jesus may have never lied, but when stories are repeated and retold over generations, details are added, this is basic psychology. Why do you trust Jesus, why not Mohammed and Hercules? Because your a narrow minded Christian who grew up with it. My answer to your rhetorical question: Yes, Jesus was probably a lunatic if he claimed the things he had supposedly claimed. If he was misconstrued (which is more likely), he was probably a well-intending man who was beloved by his fellow rebels and enemies to the romans.
Your next part of your terribly subjective argument is probably the most sadistic thing i have ever read. You are an insult to every 3rd World nation. Research the dictatorship of the Democratic Republic of Congo, one of the most christian countries in the world. You are saying that every struggling non-christian country deserves to suffer and every struggling christian country should be thankful that they are all dying. You are a sociopath. You have no idea about the world around you. If god chokes you and tortures you into a painful death by malnourishment, dehydration, aids etc, then he is not a god. Dying is not a bless. You flinch when something potentially harmful approaches, you cower from dangerous animals, you feel insecure in darkness or the unknown - you fear death, just like every other human and animal. Yahweh's promise does not exist.
"Suffering also builds character" - Sadistic Maniac 2016
Exorcism is a hoax that takes advantage of people with mental disorders, heres an explanation: *link removed*
Besides, why would Satan randomly possess a guy that just happens to have a history of schizophrenia and epilepsy? Why would he waste his time on a bunch of random americans?
Now you are just lying. You DID (and still do) go to church ever so frequently and you were never an atheist because you obviously dont know what an atheist really is. I love it how you dont deny where you live. Its strange how you see little correlation with religion and geography.
You havent refuted anything I have said and you havent given ANY evidence to back your claims. And none of anything you have said, proves why christianity is the right faith. You are truly ignorant. You say atheist videos make your faith stronger - does that mean seeing all the awful, disgusting and contradicting passages in the bible make it seem more legitimate? You're an idiot. You dont even watch atheist videos, you just go straight to the comments and make a shitty argument in a desperate attempt to oppress your beliefs and affirm them for yourself.
Dont get me wrong, i do not doubt that you are staring at a "Light" of sorts. However, it is just another light, next to the Islam one and the Jewish one, and across the table from the hindu one and the buddhist one and the thousands of others. Your "Light" is just like all of them - it feels good, appears perfect, and gives hope to those destined to be doomed, but it also blinds the pursuer's surroundings, forming ignorance, bigotry, hate, retardation and pretentiousness. Step back and look past the many lights - look forward, look at the truth.
Oh yeah i almost forgot, fuck you for not watching my videos and reading my response you biased piece of shit. Because the evidence was staring at your face. Do you deny the contradictions? No, you cant, if you did, then youd be denying your holy book.
Reality Bless you bigot, this is the Truth of Life.
He hadn't replied to this, and so after a week i arrogantly sent him this to secure the “victory”:
Watch this video and read the comments, its just too good mate
*link removed*
I had just had a conversation with a more mild Christian, who admitted her faith couldn't be taken seriously. I was on a high, so probably not the best move on my part, but whatever. He replied with this:
oh man...... that is the devil's work at it's finest. Many people say demons and satan aren't real, it is until they encounter witches, spells, curses, and haunted houses that they snap out of the blindness they are living in.
If you only knew the knowledge I could share with....If you only knew!... wow just wow
The reason I say this is because when I was an atheist, these are the videos I use to see, and they use to make laugh. However, now looking at these things, I feel so sorry for all these people laughing and mocking at Jesus. You really cannot grasp the blindness you are living only until you are enlightened by the glory of God, I was like this at one point. MY GOODNESS!! I truly wish you could see all that I have learned. I'm not going to lie the banana argument was absurd, and the superhero was corny. But when you sit in front of The Lord, all these things won't be funny anymore, I assure all these people will be standing before him weeping and crying and asking for forgiveness, that's if they do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior.
Brother, as your brother here on earth, I am asking you to please wake up! You are not guaranteed tomorrow! Imagine, if you die tomorrow, do you know where you are going? Honestly, please think about that. You have no idea, in fact you are scared for your life. If you die, you're going to be like "Man, I should've listened to those stupid Christians! They were right! Now I am here suffering!!" I am talking to you because I care about you! You think I'm here because I want to prove that God is real? Not at all! I know God is real and I want to save your life. Please look at both sides of the argument, and also look at all the videos I gave you. I can guarantee you 100% that God and Jesus are real. I've seen over 100 demonic possessions, people with demons and ghosts in their houses. Some of these were atheists and agnostics. The one and only way they were delivered from these demons was because of the power of God and Christ himself! As soon as theses priests start the prayer, these people start screaming as if they are being burned, some of their eye's even turn all black, and even start speaking in different voices and languages. It is not Allah, muhammad, buddha, confucious, joseph smith, or brahman that delivered these people, it was Jesus Christ only. Note, some of these people were satanist, casting curses and spells to people, they could even kill people without touching them, they levitate, they manipulate objects without touching them. If you believe these things are fake, then you are being fooled by the devil himself. Find any witch in real life and you will see all these things are true....
I strongly suggest you look at ex-satanist videos on youtube, search for satanist delivered by Jesus, or ex-satanists.
Have a wonderful day brother, please carry an open mind, it defies logic to refuse something you have not looked at...
At that moment, i realised this guy was crazy. I replied with:
I already explained why exorcism is an exploitation. There is a reason why doctors never diagnose a patient with "demons". You were never an atheist, dont lie mate. You watch these extravagant exorcisms on American Christian channels!!! Not on the bbc, not on any science channels. I highly suggest you stop watching cable tv, because it restricts you to seeing the world around you as you see what you want to see. Go watch a muslim or hindu or whatever channel and you will see the exact same scenes.
I dont think you heard the news. Our brains shut down when we die. That is all conscious thought abolished. All body senses inapt. There is no heaven or hell. They are made up concepts that every religion uses to scare the weak minded into remaining non-sceptical of the higher authority. Think right now of how you heard about heaven and hell. You never read a book about the afterlife, you never saw an educational documentary about the afterlife and you were never taught (unless you went to a christian school) about the afterlife in school. The idea of an afterlife was reenforced into you through your parents, church, community and media.
You like the idea of an afterlife and you like the idea that you are following the right religion, but in truth you only follow it because you see it as a norm in your theistic society in america. You think you have a special connection to a guy that died 2000 years ago. You dont.
You warn me that im going to hell. Why should i be scared? Doesnt satan want us to disobey god? Shouldnt i be best mates with him?
The concept of good and bad is so over used and stale in so many cultures and religions, i honestly think christianity is the most boring of them all.
By gods word in the bible, you shouldnt be trying to convert me, you are supposed to stone me to death. - Stop trying to disobey gods word!!!!
Lol, you are delusional and you are reenforcing your beliefs through prejudice and biased sources that arent even sources. Please link me to 1 scientist with a PhD that supports exorcism. Thats my challenge. In return i will link you to 10 scientist that support evolution, another 10 that support the big bang, and another 10 that support gravity (all scientific theories that people say, "are just theories") (ps, i know you know gravity is real, im just showing how it is in the same calibre as other sciences that contradict the bible).
Oh, and dont you dare say that scientists have no say about the origins of the universe, when you yourself are the least qualified and most deluded individual in your little american country town. Why do you feel that you have a say that god is real? Why do you feel that the crazy people on tv that grew up with god are right? Why is your ego bigger than your brain? Why is reason and empirical evidence unmatched by the ravings of psychopaths on television? Why do you think that you have a special connection to man whose existence was only ever recorded through eye-witness testimony from generations prior? Why the fuck do you think demons would target lower class middle aged men in only america, who all happen to have a history of schizophrenia and epilepsy?
Answer this one question: WTF is so convincing about god and jesus, other than what you "think" or "feel" or watch on Christian TV??? Link me something because i wanna know.
It defies logic to believe in something that has no evidence.
PS It is hilarious how you laugh off intelligent design, then remain serious when talking about demons. Because you 'think' they are real, just as they 'think' bananas were made perfectly. Good logic mate.
Good day to you, you patronising moron.
Stole a some bits there from a few comedians btw. Honestly guys, I thought I had heard the end of him, but he sent me this - its comedic christian gold.
lol, wow brother, such needless insults. I still love you man, don't worry. The Lord Loves you, there is no doubt about that, sooner or later you will know he is real. God bless you
Have a wonderful day..
Unfortunately for him, I wasn't finished:
You still have not given any evidence. I think that is a valid reason to continue insulting you because your so ignorant and oblivious. Please refute anything I said that you disagree with, instead of patronising me with "i still love you" and "have a wonderful day".
I genuinely hope you read a book and take a shit on your ethnocentric views.
Then he suddenly sprouted back with a more personal approach:
There is no further significance in conveying anything more to you. A person who does not want to accept the reality of God, will deny everything that is put in front of them, even before looking at it. Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it". I gave you all those videos, yet you were naive enough to respond to the document without looking at no more than two videos (Like 3 weeks ago). I am not messaging you to warn you about hell, I am messaging you because I want to fill you with abundance, peace, love, joy, blessings, and happiness. The New Testament is the new covenant that God brought in, we are to love everybody and be forgiving. Stonings are not something we are to do in this day in age, and Jesus has prohibited to do such things. You think we are both here arguing each other to force each other to an absolute belief. I am not here to coerce you into accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. That path is one you will fulfill for yourself. In regards to me, there is nothing I can be shown, nor anything that I can be given, that will turn me away from Christ. I can be offered 100 billion dollars to turn me away from God, and I wouldn't take it, someone can hold a gun to my head and threaten me to turn to Islam, and I won't, he will have to execute me. This is because I know God is real, and he has let me know he is real. He has completely transformed my life, I cannot even begin to explain to you the wonders The Lord has done in my life. Any evidence you show me can never turn me atheist, it will only serve as learning tool to broaden my understanding, and that's it. I understand why there are many atheists, they want to prove to themselves there is no God to further live a sinful life. They wish to keep using drugs, weed, alcohol, partying, going to clubs, fornicating, masturbating, watching pornography, cursing, blaspheming, being hateful, regretful, resentful, ominous, engage in prostitution or pay prostitutes, vengeful, and pretty much every negative habit.
John 3 :17-21
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe lives condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
I am here because I want to save your life. Watch the videos and make an educated decision for yourself. Ever since I came to know Christ, my life has never been the same, and this is what I want for you.
I exploded with my next response, intending to end this once and for all. I probably didn't go far enough with it and the stuff I wrote about was very dumbed down for this guy - so don't expect any Hitchslaps:
Your first statement really applies to you: I feel that there is no further significance in conveying anything more to you. A person who does not want to accept physic evidence, will deny everything that is put in front of them, even before looking at it. Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".
Again, you have not provided any evidence so i dont understand why you say that everything put in front of me is casted away. I mentioned earlier, all of your videos were trivial and not back by any actual professionals. It is so silly how many Christians disregard the Old Testament. You are basically saying that God supported rape, slavery, homophobia, murder and stoning, but one day changed his mind after billions of years (or thousands if you think the bible overrides various scientific dating techniques). That all-knowing and omniscient god should have seen the social shift of the middle ages coming. Also, why do you keep supporting your beliefs by rehearsing verses from a book that I dont believe in. If I think the book is false and written by primitive and barbaric men in bronze age middle-east, why would anything written in it change my views? If you mean to express the purity of the book then i am not convinced, as i showed in various videos, the bible is plagued with contradictions (which you are yet to have refuted), and the writing of the bible isnt even that good or morally enlightening. I have read greater passages expressing morality in works by Anton LaVey.
"drugs, weed, alcohol": Drugs and alcohol are just as common among Christians. The Bible doesnt deject drugs or drinking so you have no point. I guess we dont shy away from a drink or two because we know its not anyones blood!!!!!
"partying, going to clubs": I dont see anything wrong with "partying" and again there is no correlation with atheism. I actually meet most Christians at parties. You just sound like a lonely person now.
"fornicating": Please explain why you must marry someone before fucking them, it doesnt stop you from divorcing. This is only seen as bad by you because you were raised to think so.
"masturbating, watching pornography": Its the people that cant fornicate that watch porn and masturbate lol.
"blaspheming": Because we spent our whole lives sounded by believers, of cause "god's sake!!" will stick around.
"cursing, being hateful, regretful, resentful, ominous, vengeful, and pretty much every negative habit.": Your just listing emotions!!! You have clearly never met an atheist outside of a debate. I can see why most atheists would be pissed off though, they have spent their entire lives worshipping something only to be proven false. You do realise that 90% of prison inmates are religious right?
"engage in prostitution or pay prostitutes": Again, you have never met an atheist in your restricted little Christian community in fucking America!!! There is no correlation with atheism and Christianity. You are generalising terribly badly. Supply me with some stats you coward. I love how you emphasis "pay prostitutes" it almost sounds as if your saying Christians dont pay their prostitutes lol.
Funny how you didnt mention "rape" or "pedophilia" because you already knew my response to that. cough cough catholic priests. If i were to generalise religious people i need only say one word - ignorance.
These are terrible generalisations but i understand that you are explaining that most atheists dont fear punishment from a god - which is true, yet we it does not mean we dont refrain from committing crimes or "bad habits". Every atheist i know has released themselves from narrow-mindedness and look at the world in a sociological view - our morals and values are shaped by the consequences they have on others e.g. I support homosexual equality because i dont see any consequences to the movement nor any reason to stand back and allow for minority groups to feel suppressed. Another example is that i see drinking, drugs etc to be consequential for yourself and those around you, hence immoral once at a certain boundary. If you need a book to remain moral, then you are not moral in the first place.
Overall I am struggling to understand your logic. Please read this next section with your greatest sincerity, I will demonstrate the most simplest logic. Im not going to refute the existence of a deity because i am unable to disprove an unfalsifiable claim, but i will explain why the Bible is false. You believe the Bible is perfect and written by the word of God, as most other religious people feel about their holy books.
1. The Bible is full of contradictions: As a video i showed earlier explained *link removed*. An example: Jesus' birth has 4 DIFFERENT AND CONTRADICTING RECOUNTS (see John 20:1, Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1 and Luke 24:10)
2. The Bible has many horrible verses that the omniscient god should have known are no fitting for our time: I have already discussed this, but you have made it clear that you choose to ignore them and cherry pick the good verses (classic christian).
3. Genesis is impossible: e.g. a) Incest somehow works, b) only in 2 generations down the line a son starts a city, c) talking snake, d) all women come from the rib of a man (a whole new level of misogyny), e) dinosaurs dont fit in, f) it is impossible for our population to go from 2 to almost 8 billion in 6 thousand years, g) we have carbon dating back to over millions of years, h) dinosaurs were extinct 65 million years ago yet the bible says the earth is only 6 thousands years old (dont say the bible says its longer because this 6 thousand estimate is the longest possible estimate by daters), i)... and you get the point, there is a longer list all you have to do is look up the facts...or just use logic.
4. Noah's Ark is impossible: e.g a) no wooden boat can exceed 100 meters without falling apart, b) incest somehow works, c) if you think two of every species was on the boat that equates to 18 million animals (excluding 1 trillion microorganisms), d) if you think two of every family than you are excepting that animals evolve causing variation (ignoring incest restrictions), e) there were exceptions to the two of everything thing as many species such as ants require millions of males to successfully impregnate a female, f) fish could somehow survive as intense water pressures, g) there isnt enough water on the earth and atmosphere to flood it completely, h) Carnivores went vegan, i) food and fresh water storage, j) waste deposites, k) all trace of the flood was eliminated, l) kangaroos hopped back over to Australia, m)...do i really need to say more.
So basically, you cannot believe this happened without looking like a moron. If you choose to cherry pick details out of these events then you are still stupid. If you choose to take this metaphorically then you are against gods word which he said was not to be misinterpreted. If you choose to disregard the Old Testament, then why the fuck did Jesus have to be tortured in the first place. By this logic, the Bible should not be taken seriously. If the Bible should be disregarded, then the basis of your religion is invalid and without evidence.
You are not debating me for God, your doing it for your pride. I do not respect your logic and so there is no point protecting whatever pride you have. All of what you say has been refuted by others before you - that is why there is less tolerance for religion in the modern world.
Yeah, that last statement was pretty savage. But this guy needed to hear it. His response was pretty weak compared to his previous ones. Here it is:
You never even looked at the other side of the argument to discredit Noah's Ark. Visit 'Answers in Genesis' website, they logically explain how Noah's Ark is actually a very feasible task.
3.) a)Starting at creation this is how we began to multiply, it was not incest until it was outlawed in Leviticus 18:6, genetic code was also pure at point of creation, abnormalities arose from latter day genetic mutations (b) Why do you marvel that someone can create a city? Humans back then were much better nourished, robust, and physiology was much healthier than today's sick population © satanists can make puppets and toys talk, Ghosts (All of which are fallen angels) can also manipulate matter, and make toys talk, what makes you think satan cannot do this himself? 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" I know witchcraft is real, my aunt was cursed by satanists and grew a huge lump in her stomach, and would screech every time she went to church (d) The first woman came from the rib of a man, not "all", obviously all succeeding women came from the womb (e) The Bible speaks of pre-Adamite beasts and animals in Genesis 1, years late in Genesis 2 Adam & Eve are created, so dinosaurs are indeed described in The Bible. (f) The earthly population doubles about every 100 years, if you calculate this starting with 2 people, it is impossible that we are any older than 6000 years, in fact calculation takes us around 4500 years, which is around when the flood occurred, only further proving The Bible. Mathematical population computation only proves The Bible is telling the truth (g) Bible never gives date of The Earth, so Bible is not false according to this carbon dating method. Besides that, nobody was even here to witness those millions of years, these are based on assumptions, this scientific claim cannot be tested. (h) As previously mentioned, The Bible mentions accounts of pre-Humans and ancient beasts, Dinosaurs only further prove the validity of The Bible. It also does not mention the lapse of time from pre-Man to living man, it only says "these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created.." (i) These facts you speak of are coming only from secular sources, have you looked at the other side of the argument? I am sure you haven't. All these things you have mentioned, I have heard them dozens of times over the years, and everything you will tell me, I have already heard it. The difference is, I am being logical and scientific with my acceptance of God, I have looked at both sides of the arguments, you are being monotone here, and are not being eclectic nor dialectic.
The fact that you mention Anton LaVey as a more appealing inspiration, speaks of your character & overall persona. There is no point in trying to present logic, nor evidence to you anymore. If you were to come to the knowledge of God & satan, you would follow satan. I will not message you anymore. I will leave you with some wisdom though. The absolute truth of the universe is Jesus Christ. All who have died, have came to this knowledge already, all who will die, will come to this knowledge. There are two things certain in your life, death & God. Even though you choose to dwell in darkness, and reject higher authority, does not exempt you from the reality. But I will expose satan's kingdom for you, for I do not want to leave you ignorant. Do not be deceived brother, the devil deceives the masses. Things like : secular music, secular TV, secular movies, sports, drugs, alcohol, weed, fornication, adultery, pornography, tarot card reading, palm reading, crystal ball reading, witchcraft, magic, satanism, occultism, evolution, atheism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, mormonism, confucionism, fame, greed, money, glory, prostitution, video games, illuminati, Rothschild blood line family, Rockefeller family, famous superstars, ghosts, demons, pride, arrogance, competition and pretty much every negative thing of this world are straight from satan and his demons. If he traps you with any of these, he has deceived you and have fallen for his lies. Some of these activities require that you worship satan, i.e., Illuminati, satanism, luciferianism,etc., so that you attain supernatural capabilities. Others are activities that serve to keep you distracted so you never find God, yet other things, are made up ideas or ideologies that serve as deception devices. If you are seeking the truth of life, you have heard it. There is no greater truth you can learn, aside from this. When you come to the knowledge of God, you come to know everything, if you do not know Christ, you know nothing.
My final blow was 2,000 words long. Here it is:
a) Why is there no fossilised evidence of this incest shift in our history, you seem to be making up bullshit. Think hard about where you got this information from - thats right, you either made it up, or received it from a christian apologist website written from people who made it up. Please quote the verse that discusses biology, genetics and mutation in the Bible, thanks.
b) My point about the city is population wise. The Bible claims that the population of the Earth went from 2 to a size enough for a city in merely 2 generations. This is impossible and we have records of actual cities at this supposed time on the other side of the planet. What you say next about health is astonishing when we all know that the life span of a homo sapien at that time was less than 30.
c) The point you make here is irrelevant. You know you are making an exaggerated claim right now - next time you see satan as you so often do, please take a picture and send it to me, thanks. Also I find it peculiar how you claim to see satan all the time - maybe its a bad omen for you. All I can say is that you are labelling everything good in the world as the work of god and everything bad in the world as the work of satan - this logic is irrational. And again I must emphasis, why the fuck is satan targeting your aunt of all people? No disrespect to her, but what is the gain? If anyone you know is displaying abnormalities, I highly suggest you send them to a doctor because stomach pains can be treated.
d) What I meant to say about the rib thing, is that the Bible, like all bronze age philosophical literature, displays women with inequality. The fact that the first woman supposedly came from the rib of a man best describes this. Woman is displayed as the derivative of Man, whilst Man is derivative of God. This is primitive misogyny at its finest, and one step away from the Quran's twisted representation of females. You as a passive male, will deny this.
e) The last dinosaur lived 65 million years before the first human, we never lived side by side. Even our most distant notable ancestor did not exist with dinosaurs. Geological evidence supports this, with the most ancient layers of sediment only containing dinosaurs, other prehistoric creatures and crustaceans.
f) Your calculation for the population of the earth is dumbfounding. You did not take into account disease, disasters, war, famine and other critical elements. You also assumed that each family multiplies without realising that infant mortality, life expectancy, health and nutrition all play a role. We are only now growing extensively as a world population because of hospitals, healthcare and welfare.
g) I knew you would deny the Bible estimate even though I literally wrote that the Bible estimate is the maximum possible time according to the text. There are no loop holes to this estimate as you may think, this is because of the transpiring events that occur in the Bible as well as few historical connections (although it is quite shaky with its historical accuracy at times, cough cough King Herod). Again you are denying already proven facts. This is a fine display of ignorance. Also you just contradicted yourself there. You just said the Bible is correct with the human population, then stated that the Earth probably is 4 Billion years old. You seem to have a double standard, even if the world is 4 Billion years old (which is way off the events that transpire in the Bible) you will continue to justify it and see it no different to 6 thousand years. And to say no one witnessed those millions of years is the cherry on top, because no first hand eye-witness actually writes about God in the Bible, besides the fact that eye-witness testimony is on record the least reliable source of evidence, only shows how trivial the whole story of Yahweh and Jesus Christ is. The scientific "claim" is a SCIENTIFIC "claim" because it HAS been tested through several methods of dating, including carbon dating - it is not assumption and you clearly have little idea of how the age is calculated. You clearly have no trust or respect for individuals with an education, in fact you clearly have a fear of the word science. You are a sophophobic, demon fearing simpleton.
h) Again, dinosaurs never lived side by side with humans, this is not the Flintstones. Please quote the verse that specifies the existence of dinosaurs - it seems strange that the Bible would just briefly skip through or vaguely describe a whole group of enormous creatures, its almost as if the barbaric middle-eastern Jews hadnt actually heard of dinosaurs when they were writing this book that borrows from other stories and folklore (sarcasm, but your simple nature wont realise).
i) I think its rather the opposite. I borrow research from neutral sources written by well-established professors and doctors that spent their whole lives in that field. You on the other hand, rely on the "christian" answer to everything even if its not specified in the Bible. You literally just told me to look up the feasibility of Noah's Ark on the "Answers in Genesis" website. The whole webpage you told me to read is all sourced from one guy called (not doctor or professor) Ken Ham, the CEO of the fucking website!!! This Ken Ham is an uneducated ozzy bloke that managed to inherit millions of dollars, and doubles his profits from subjectively writing about topics he is not qualified to pursue. When you research you need to stop throwing around key words like "Bibles explanation of..." or "Gods thoughts on.." because you will only find websites righten by Christian apologists. None of the sources I find ever even mention a god or atheism or whatever, they only state facts through critical analysis and examination and borrow from more established individuals with an even more impressive resume. I dont even think there is such thing as a nonsecular science. Yeah btw, my challenge is still on the table - Please link me to 1 scientist with a PhD that supports exorcism. In return I will link you 10 scientists that support evolution, another 10 that support the big bang, and another 10 that support gravity (all scientific theories that people say, "are just theories"). Im sorry to say, but you are not being eclectic - please back your claims with physical evidence other than the book that is in dispute, much appreciated. I dont think you realise that most atheist were previously religious, and so we have an extensive knowledge of the "other side of the argument". I do not doubt that you have heard it all before, because your responses are perfectly articulated to avoid tackling the actual statements - a thing I call ignorance.
Anton LaVey used the title "Satanic Bible" as irony - I dont think there is a devil alive or at least worth worshipping. If you want to say that the fact I think Anton LaVey is appealing speaks of my persona, I will take it as a compliment. Being described as the foundation of secular philosophy and dogma is quite nice, thank you.
"secular music, secular TV, secular movies, sports, drugs, alcohol, weed, fornication, adultery, pornography, tarot card reading, palm reading, crystal ball reading, witchcraft, magic, satanism, occultism, evolution, atheism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, mormonism, confucionism, fame, greed, money, glory, prostitution, video games, illuminati, Rothschild blood line family, Rockefeller family, famous superstars, ghosts, demons, pride, arrogance, competition and pretty much every negative thing of this world are straight from satan and his demons"
Well you proved my point there. You do label pretty much everything bad under the banner of Satan - your local church has taught you well. You clearly think highly of the devil, you seem to think he has a great imagination and a really random scale of evil. You have a few weird things in this big chunk of random stuff in here that are clearly not the product of Satan.
1. Being secular means not believing in the devil or demons either.
2. Doing sport if anything is good for you.
3. Pornography - again, if you cant fornicate, you'd be the one watching porn.
4. Tarot card, palm and crystal ball reading? Are you fucking serious? Do I need to explain to you why some broken old woman in a tent doesnt actually know the future? All jokes aside, you are seriously gullible.
5. Occultism? The very thing you believe in?
6. Evolution is the only science that you hate because it debunks your religion. If satan is behind evolution, i dont care, it doesnt stop it from actually happening.
7. Buddhism? So satan taught Asians how to be peaceful? Thats seriously out of character. Seems like a nice guy when you think about it.
8.Mormonism? A group that hates the same devil you hate? Alrighty then.
9. Confucianism? Please explain what is wrong about this.
10. Fame, greed, glory - You just described the Judea Christian God in three words, congrats
11. Video games? Well I now know for sure that your an old man in rural southern USA.
12. Illuminati? Fucking hell you actually believe the illuminati are real? The illuminati is a fucking joke revived to cause controversy by modern conspiracist. You think the illuminati has enough evidence to be real, but every aspect of science is just theory. You are insane.
13. Rothschild bloodline? Thats is oddly specific. Yet another conspiracy theory with absolutely no credibility. Are you fucking for real? Wikipedia describes this theory really well - "Many conspiracy theories about the Rothschild family have been identified as resulting from anti-Semitic prejudice reaching back several hundred years, and not as a result of evidence.[84][85][86][87][88]"
14. Please explain the validity of the Rockefeller family's involvement in the New World Order conspiracy. I see no genuine correlation.
I think its evident that your just randomly spitting out really lame conspiracies.
15. Famous superstars? Dude, you're just feeling spiteful towards those more successful than you. You selfish bastard. There is a reason why you havent achieved anything in life - stop refusing to take responsibility for your mistakes and failure. Dont shift the blame onto the supernatural - you are a grown man. If you stayed in school, we wouldnt be communicating right now.
16. Pride?!!! What? You dont take pride in the shit you do? Do you not have pride for Christianity? Look up the definition of pride. I guess satan has deceived you.
17. Competition? Oh I get it, you thought it was very healthy when Joshua stormed through raping and pillaging WITHOUT competition or resistance. I see how pure your logic is now.
God doesnt hate any of these practices or learnings, you hate them and condemn them, and use God as your shield. You are pathetic.
"When you come to the knowledge of God, you come to know everything, if you do not know Christ, you know nothing (Jon Snow)."
Your retardation alone, disproves this statement.
This is how it should go -
"When you come to the knowledge of God, you become disappointed, if you do not know Christ, you have more time on your hands."
Im so glad that natural selection is real, because your overly superstitious genes wont be able to pass on without sex (a practice that you wont ever experience).
I have no more time for your fanatics, BELIEVE ME I HAVE MORE
A little Hitchens reference at the end there
He hasn't responded since, but I will inform you all if he does in the near future.
In conclusion, I do regret the level of hate I sent him, but overall I think it was a good experience and hopefully he learnt a thing or two from it as well. His views were effectively, abnormal. Never had I ever thought that people could actually think this way. Truely an incredible breakthrough for socialisation and in-group out-group theory.
What are your thoughts? Who won? Did anyone else have an experience similar to this?
Heres the document I forgot to include:
God is Real (& all the evidence you will ever need)
God is real my brothers and sisters Of this I am unequivocally sure. Plain and simple, this is the Truth. Anyone claiming otherwise is either willfully ignorant or ought to harm you. Now, why do you think you feel bad whenever you deny God? It is because he is real and wants you to know that. I too was an Atheist, hardcore atheist at that. I would think of every logical argument as to why he could not be real. Eventually I asked myself, what am I trying to prove? Why do I seek this? If you truly believe something isn't real, you dismiss it in a heartbeat. Like if I tell you, there is a cookie monster in the closet, you would dismiss it immediately, you wouldn't think twice about it, you wouldn't even argue it. Then why do atheists seek God so much? Why do atheists waste every bit of energy denying him? The simple difference with God, is that he is real and wants you to know that, this is why you feel an emptiness in your heart every time you deny him. What sets Christianity apart from other religions is that 'gods' from other religions like Buddha, Allah, Muhammad, Confucius, etc. never claimed to be God, they claimed to be teachers or prophets. Jesus, however, claimed to be God in the flesh, and he who believes in him also believes in God.
*Logical Reasons For God*
1. If all explosions result in nothing but destruction, then explain to me how the greatest explosion in the history of the universe ever resulted in these beautiful words before you? Yes, last time I checked, hydrogen bombs and atomic bombs never produced a single living organism, much less any beauty. So how can an explosion quindecillion times more violent ever do this?
2. If the macro-evolution theory were real then we would find an overwhelming amount of evidence in transitional bones of apes transforming to humans. Because to get from ape to human would require thousands (if not millions) of times longer, thus, such overwhelming evidence would be left behind. But the reality is that we have NEVER found such evidence, and this is coming from the top anthropologists in the world. Skeptics then claim that these transitional bones were dissolved over a period of time. But this is an ignorance fallacy, because if this were the case, we would not find ancient dinosaur fossils which are thousands of times older than man or ape. We also wouldn’t find ancient human or ancient primate bones. In fact this is all that has ever been found, human or ape bones and nothing in between. This completely disproves the theory that we evolved from monkeys, or from a common ancestor, because such evidence is fairytale.
3. If God does not exist, then take me through this infiniteness and show me everything there is to see, show me everything that is real and everything that exists. For if atheists are so sure of their delusions I want them to literally take me by the hand and journey me through EVERY space and dimension that has ever existed in the history of everything. (But no person can ever do this and they never will, therefore it is actually quite foolish to say there is no God, atheists are really agnostics at heart, because for you to claim there is no God you have to had seen that there actually is no God.)
4. Also, if the macro-evolution were real, then we would have evidence showing the creation of genes. If you look at all the scientific literature, there is not one instance in DNA ever creating genes! This absolutely debunks the evolution theory at its core because evolutionists claim that we evolved from bacteria or some micro-organism, but for this to be true, these organisms would have to create genes, but we have never found any evidence for this! There is a reason they call the evolution theory a ‘theory’ and not a ‘law’ or ‘fact’. All there is evidence for is the mutation of existing DNA and the use of current information, but never the creation for it. This explains why all dogs still carry the same original DNA strand! Yes, all dogs still have the same DNA. The only difference is that dogs have been bred to output a specific gene, thus, this explains how we use mutation of genes to get the variation in types of dogs. But DNA has NEVER been created in this whole process, only current information has been changed. All of this also explains why we as humans are also varying. Things like the environment, nutrients, minerals, toxins, and other things affect the genes within us. But these things never create genes! The evolution theory is a best-selling fictional story and nothing more, scientific evidence proves it!
5. And why is it that there is more historical evidence in the existence of Jesus Christ than any ancient human that ever lived (Even more than Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Hippocrates, Julius Caesar, and others)? If you deny Jesus’ existence you are literally denying the existence of Darwin, Abraham Lincoln, the holocaust, the people I mentioned, and thousands of others.
6. [size=medium]If God and Jesus do not exist, why is it that ghosts and demonic spirits (i.e. haunted houses, demonic possessions, poltergeists, etc.) surrender in the word of God and Jesus Christ? If you really need physical proof, find an officially haunted house that has records and accounts of people being haunted and start reading the Bible, it’ll only take a few minutes before you start feeling, hearing, and seeing the presence around you being vexed, because if indeed Jesus and God are not real, then these entities would not be bothered at all by the name of some fictional being. Or better yet, get a Ouija board and use it until you are able to get a spirit/ghost in. Once you are being haunted and scared to death at night, read the Bible and call in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. You will be amazed in the power of Jesus Christ and will feel so puny for
DISCLAIMER - You are about to read over 12 thousand words, do not blame me for the girlfriend you will lose.
Hi, I'm new to this and so I'm not sure if there is already a thread for this, but whatever. I just want to share this experience with like minded individuals. For privacy reasons, none of our details will be included.
Basically, i had an argument with this random guy over email that i met in the comment section of a YouTube video.
Please excuse any spelling or grammar errors i may have made, i was hyper with adrenaline when typing as I'm passionate about the topic. Warning also, i may have been a bit too direct or patronising towards this guy, but as you will see, it was justified. Spoiler - The guy is insane. This story is also very long, sorry about that.
Backstory: Ive always admired the works of Hitchens and Harris, and most recently NonStampCollector. Ive always sort of questioned the minds of religious people, because i have a great passion for sociology and philosophy. But it has always stopped there. Until now. I have recently discovered the Christians you only hear about in atheist folklore. They fear the word “science” and are ignorant of its beautiful works - specifically the works that debunk the Bible (which is most of science). They use the “evolution is just a theory” argument without realising that gravity and atoms are also scientific theories. They only reject what challenges their beliefs. This is the definition of ignorance. A word I now find myself saying far too often.
So here we go:
After exchanging emails on YouTube, he sent me this:
Hey! Please take time to read the document first, and then look at the videos with the evidence. It is all the evidence you will ever need! God is calling you and wants you to be part of his children. This is not of my accord but of my Father's accord, that you might know him! Have a wonderful day man!
The document attached was as follows:
Advice - don't watch the videos, its not worth it, trust me
I replied, at first quite formally, but you will notice that the later emails are pretty savage:
Heres the answer to your first question, quoted from the Big Bang Theory Website
“Big Bang Theory - The Premise
The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.
According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.
After its initial appearance, it apparently inflated (the "Big Bang"), expanded and cooled, going from very, very small and very, very hot, to the size and temperature of our current universe. It continues to expand and cool to this day and we are inside of it: incredible creatures living on a unique planet, circling a beautiful star clustered together with several hundred billion other stars in a galaxy soaring through the cosmos, all of which is inside of an expanding universe that began as an infinitesimal singularity which appeared out of nowhere for reasons unknown. This is the Big Bang theory.
Big Bang Theory - Common Misconceptions
There are many misconceptions surrounding the Big Bang theory. For example, we tend to imagine a giant explosion. Experts however say that there was no explosion; there was (and continues to be) an expansion. Rather than imagining a balloon popping and releasing its contents, imagine a balloon expanding: an infinitesimally small balloon expanding to the size of our current universe.”
Heres the answer to your second question
You have truly annoyed me with this, every (and i sincerely mean every) transition from the common ancestor to ours has been found. It is a common fallacy to deny it from christians, however a simple google search will show you. Go to any museum in the world and you will find each transition.
Heres a funny video that represents this stupid christian argument, *link removed*
Heres the answer to your third question
Im afraid you have it the wrong way around. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. The burden of proof is on you. I can say unicorns exist, but i must prove it if i want it to hold any validity.
Heres the answer to your forth question
Google it, you ignorant fool. This is such a simpleton question, you really think science has left a obvious giant hole of controversy like this? Surprise, evolution is not a theory (at least the type of theory you seem to deem it as).
Heres the answer to your fifth question
All those people you listed are thousands of years older than Jesus, so no shit. You think Jesus is special, how come the only records of him were recorded 30 years after his death, the average life span of a human back then, so therefore most of his great “miracles” are misconstrued and exaggerated by second hand witnesses. In fact, there is more evidence for Mohammed than there is for Jesus. If you research Julius Caesar, you would know that he was regarded as a god among men who could grant miracles, no different from how jesus is portrayed, only, many historians recorded Caesars life unlike Jesus, and so we know these beliefs are untrue.
Heres the answer to your sixth question
Believe it or not, i have actually done the ouija board in my old house. However, even if spirit and demons do exist (which they don’t, they are made up to scare simpletons into obeying their masters), it still doesn't mean that the Judea Christian God that you worship exists, it may be another god, unknown or forgotten, or maybe we are just playing a trick on our brains. When people seek god, they tend to attach and credit him to every thing incredible and great, or use him to explain everything out of the ordinary, or fit him in to explain the unexplained. Whilst I cannot disprove demonic spirits etc, i can explain the origins of natural phenomenas or superstitions, and explain why it is impossible for an almighty, omnipotent and willing god to exist.
You think these questions have no materialistic answers, but you don't realise that they have been answered countless times before. Google it. Only an ignorant fool that knows nothing about the science that they are slandering, makes these arguments. You do realise that anyone from any other religion would bring up these points to prove their religion too? These points are stupid and do not prove that any deity exists, let alone Yahweh.
It is not that Jesus may have lied, its that his story has been exaggerated and believed. Jesus was a real man, i have no doubt, but he was not the son of god, certainly not the god represented in the old testament. The bible has been proven wrong countless times by many intellectuals, but you only read/watch/listen to what you want, which only further affirms your belief through socialisation. Let me guess, you were born and raised in the southern states of america. Im guessing you voted for trump (dont bring up politics, i really don't give a shit about the presidency, it is just a point I'm making). Im guessing you went to church every Sunday with your overly religious family (well actually I'm not guessing, i know). Be truthful to yourself (as your god wants you to be), you were raised in one of the most religious states in america, probably Mississippi, Utah or Alabama (fun fact, also 3 of the dumbest states in america by IQ) where you affirmed your beliefs ever so often. You now find yourself puzzled and confused by the large uprising of Atheism and so you challenge it, in an attempt to continue convincing yourself that you are following the right path. You take large leaps of hypocrisy and ignorance to ensure this is done, so egotistically, that you see little of your stupidity. Deny it, i don't care, but don't make up bullshit in an attempt to affirm and press your beliefs on yourself and others. You seem like a sincere guy, so take what i say in an unbiased way and look at it in a social view (as hard as it may be).
God and Jesus are not here I'm afraid, believe it or not there is a lot of logic behind the typical atheist statement “if they were real, why is life so unfair”. Your christian based answer would be “freewill”, this is a silly answer though, simply read the bible, all these great events in the book are always intervened or caused by a physical god who shows himself, a god that intervenes is not granting freewill. If you were instead to say “God does intervene, but he prevents atrocities before they happen, and so we never see him”, then why the fuck is Africa so impoverish, one of the largest christian continents. Does god not show himself anymore? Did he give up on us? I thought he created a huge flood that wiped out all the sinners to solve this problem (the only flood that has no trace of ever happening). You’d then say “God works in mysterious ways, some things he cannot change”, then why the fuck are you glorifying him? if he had the power to create the universe in 6 days, why cant he change a few little details? why did he create errors, evil and cruelty in his world? You'd then say “we are born of sin”, let me ask you, do you really think that the 20 thousand children that die every day, deserve it? Another argument of yours would be, “Well he is with us in spirit, he grants everyone of us morality and his love, how we accept it defines our fait”, no, look up feral children, socialisation has left them far from what our norms deem as moral. We are who we are, because of how we are socialised, it has nothing to do with god. You were raised with christianity, and so you believe it. A feral child is raised by animals, so he/she acts like an animal. A serial killer/psychopath is raised by broken people, so he/she thinks killing is a norm. You will struggle to find a response to this, and so you'd ask for evidence (evidence that you can find yourself), or you'd say “well without God, you have no meaning to life”, this statement is foolish, are you saying that your meaning to life is to fear god and fear his judgement? How petty. My meaning to life is no different to what you believe inside, i treasure happiness, justice, freedom and equality, that is my meaning to life.
Those wonderful videos were suggested to you by your youtube recommendations, not god, lol.
These videos are ridiculous. The “mathematic probability” of god existing, is no more than the existence of Zeus and Odin. “Evolution proves creationism”, lol you just said you don't believe in evolution. The bible says that humans were created as humans, if you accept evolution, you are denying your gods word. The problem with most christians, is that they take everything science knows about the origins of everything, and they root it to a god. No, thats not how science works. Science has proved that these events happen on their own without any extraterrestrial support. The argument “DNA is so complex, it cant form by itself” is an insult. These are the arguments of the uneducated. Look up all this shit and you will know how nature can guide itself to “miracles”. I do not doubt that the bible has changed, if it did, the verses that claim slavery is permitted, homosexuals should die, women should be suppressed, a rape victim should marry their rapist, incest is possible, etc would be removed. The contradictions would also be removed, see this video for a few of them *link removed*
Again, you are watching what you want to watch to affirm your beliefs. If you watch only atheist videos, you would be an atheist. Christians are only christians because they have been exposed to the bible and its culture from before the age of reason.
Heres two more videos, i don't want to plague you with hundreds of videos, I'm gonna be snappy with it, and show you what you should see. If you are honest (which i have no doubt that you are), watch these videos, they are relevant to your future.
*link removed*
*link removed*
You will feel insulted watching these, but not as insulted as how scientist feel when their work is slandered and misconstrued to make room for a deity. If you have any questions or you want to challenge what I've said, be my guest.
I was quite happy with my last statement there. He replies with the same old arguments we have all heard, and then does a sort of “appeal to emotion” at the end, which i found pretty funny:
In regards to the universe singularity theory, there is no way life could have came about if a Divine authority hadn't initialized. Something or someone had to start it, whether it be Zeus or Odin, somebody started it. In fact, if you plug in the odds into a calculator, there is literally a 0% chance we came from random chance. Just like you wouldn't expect for something to come out of nothing, unless you put that something in their, it is the same thing with the one(s) who put the materials in the universe. There is no evidence for evolution, we don't find minature humans 3 inches tall, to 4, to 5, ....... to 60 inches tall, such ridiculous leap of faith. All we have ever found has been complete full figures, not a procedural gainage of height. If it is undeniable that Jesus existed, why would he be lying? You've heard of the miracles he worked, the love he spread, etc. Either he was a lunatic, or he was indeed the Son of God. True or false, no in between. Ask him, and he will answer you. The reason people suffer is because they have abandoned the laws of God, people who let satan rule their lives dwell in sickness, poverty, and famine. And I guarantee you that those devout Christians in third world countries are getting their daily bread every day. Suffering also builds character, Jesus was perfect, yet he was born into flesh to perfect him in his ways. And you are acting as if death is a bad thing. I am willing, rather to be absent from the body and be present with The Lord, which is far better. But obviously I will not kill myself, I will leave when The Lord permits me. You see, when you walk in The Light, which is Jesus Christ, you know where you are headed! Those who do not believe in The Lord, have no idea where they are headed! I can guarantee you 100% that if I die today, I will be a VERY happy man, because I no longer have to dwell in such a filthy world, I will be with Christ and my beloved family members who have moved on. If Jesus was a lie, then demons would not flee in his name! Search for an exorcist, and ask him if you can accompany him to his exorcism, you will see for yourself. The name Jesus carries power not by coincidence, but by virtue of God himself. And no, I did not grow up going to Church every sunday, in fact, throughout childhood I went to church maybe a max of 5 times. One of these gaps being a laps of 10 years. For 6 years I was an atheist, even cursing at God! Do you think I am here because of random hope! Absolutely not! That is the difference, I know God is real. I searched for God and he showed me he was real. You have faith that God is not real. Are you seriously willing to gamble your destiny in the afterlife based on intellectual elitism? Read The Bible, you have everything to gain and nothing to lose. I watch atheist videos all the time actually, and my faith only increases every time, that is why I watch them. The videos you provided are not evidence, they are opinions from fallible man. I have presented evidence, and nothing but evidence to you. I know you have not watched them all, it will take a few days. But I urge to look at them, The Lord wants to save your life. Why would I be lying to you? This that I speak is not of my accord but of my Father's accord. You have a chance now, to abide in his love, in the future you will not have this option. I have made it succinct enough for you..... ask The Lord himself but with a humble, and forgiving heart... he will show you
God Bless you brother, this is The Truth of Life
This kind of triggered me, as you will notice, its all out savage from here:
How do you know the universe needs a creator? Who are you, why are you so special? How come you know what every scientist EVER does not know? Why are you so special? Answer: Your fucking not. Your delusional, and your "opinion" on how the universe works will never be taken seriously without empirical evidence. There is a reason why evolution and the big bang are grouped with words such as "science" "objective reasoning". There is a reason why religion is not in this group. There is a reason why only 7% of the science community identifies as religious. Your ignorance only raises more questions - how was god created? how does god bend the laws of nature? why does god do fuck all? I think it is evident that you dont know what evolution is, here is a really basic video explaining it *link removed*
You seem conflicted to why Jesus would lie, but you clearly didnt understand what i was saying. Jesus may have never lied, but when stories are repeated and retold over generations, details are added, this is basic psychology. Why do you trust Jesus, why not Mohammed and Hercules? Because your a narrow minded Christian who grew up with it. My answer to your rhetorical question: Yes, Jesus was probably a lunatic if he claimed the things he had supposedly claimed. If he was misconstrued (which is more likely), he was probably a well-intending man who was beloved by his fellow rebels and enemies to the romans.
Your next part of your terribly subjective argument is probably the most sadistic thing i have ever read. You are an insult to every 3rd World nation. Research the dictatorship of the Democratic Republic of Congo, one of the most christian countries in the world. You are saying that every struggling non-christian country deserves to suffer and every struggling christian country should be thankful that they are all dying. You are a sociopath. You have no idea about the world around you. If god chokes you and tortures you into a painful death by malnourishment, dehydration, aids etc, then he is not a god. Dying is not a bless. You flinch when something potentially harmful approaches, you cower from dangerous animals, you feel insecure in darkness or the unknown - you fear death, just like every other human and animal. Yahweh's promise does not exist.
"Suffering also builds character" - Sadistic Maniac 2016
Exorcism is a hoax that takes advantage of people with mental disorders, heres an explanation: *link removed*
Besides, why would Satan randomly possess a guy that just happens to have a history of schizophrenia and epilepsy? Why would he waste his time on a bunch of random americans?
Now you are just lying. You DID (and still do) go to church ever so frequently and you were never an atheist because you obviously dont know what an atheist really is. I love it how you dont deny where you live. Its strange how you see little correlation with religion and geography.
You havent refuted anything I have said and you havent given ANY evidence to back your claims. And none of anything you have said, proves why christianity is the right faith. You are truly ignorant. You say atheist videos make your faith stronger - does that mean seeing all the awful, disgusting and contradicting passages in the bible make it seem more legitimate? You're an idiot. You dont even watch atheist videos, you just go straight to the comments and make a shitty argument in a desperate attempt to oppress your beliefs and affirm them for yourself.
Dont get me wrong, i do not doubt that you are staring at a "Light" of sorts. However, it is just another light, next to the Islam one and the Jewish one, and across the table from the hindu one and the buddhist one and the thousands of others. Your "Light" is just like all of them - it feels good, appears perfect, and gives hope to those destined to be doomed, but it also blinds the pursuer's surroundings, forming ignorance, bigotry, hate, retardation and pretentiousness. Step back and look past the many lights - look forward, look at the truth.
Oh yeah i almost forgot, fuck you for not watching my videos and reading my response you biased piece of shit. Because the evidence was staring at your face. Do you deny the contradictions? No, you cant, if you did, then youd be denying your holy book.
Reality Bless you bigot, this is the Truth of Life.
He hadn't replied to this, and so after a week i arrogantly sent him this to secure the “victory”:
Watch this video and read the comments, its just too good mate
*link removed*
I had just had a conversation with a more mild Christian, who admitted her faith couldn't be taken seriously. I was on a high, so probably not the best move on my part, but whatever. He replied with this:
oh man...... that is the devil's work at it's finest. Many people say demons and satan aren't real, it is until they encounter witches, spells, curses, and haunted houses that they snap out of the blindness they are living in.
If you only knew the knowledge I could share with....If you only knew!... wow just wow
The reason I say this is because when I was an atheist, these are the videos I use to see, and they use to make laugh. However, now looking at these things, I feel so sorry for all these people laughing and mocking at Jesus. You really cannot grasp the blindness you are living only until you are enlightened by the glory of God, I was like this at one point. MY GOODNESS!! I truly wish you could see all that I have learned. I'm not going to lie the banana argument was absurd, and the superhero was corny. But when you sit in front of The Lord, all these things won't be funny anymore, I assure all these people will be standing before him weeping and crying and asking for forgiveness, that's if they do not accept Christ as Lord and Savior.
Brother, as your brother here on earth, I am asking you to please wake up! You are not guaranteed tomorrow! Imagine, if you die tomorrow, do you know where you are going? Honestly, please think about that. You have no idea, in fact you are scared for your life. If you die, you're going to be like "Man, I should've listened to those stupid Christians! They were right! Now I am here suffering!!" I am talking to you because I care about you! You think I'm here because I want to prove that God is real? Not at all! I know God is real and I want to save your life. Please look at both sides of the argument, and also look at all the videos I gave you. I can guarantee you 100% that God and Jesus are real. I've seen over 100 demonic possessions, people with demons and ghosts in their houses. Some of these were atheists and agnostics. The one and only way they were delivered from these demons was because of the power of God and Christ himself! As soon as theses priests start the prayer, these people start screaming as if they are being burned, some of their eye's even turn all black, and even start speaking in different voices and languages. It is not Allah, muhammad, buddha, confucious, joseph smith, or brahman that delivered these people, it was Jesus Christ only. Note, some of these people were satanist, casting curses and spells to people, they could even kill people without touching them, they levitate, they manipulate objects without touching them. If you believe these things are fake, then you are being fooled by the devil himself. Find any witch in real life and you will see all these things are true....
I strongly suggest you look at ex-satanist videos on youtube, search for satanist delivered by Jesus, or ex-satanists.
Have a wonderful day brother, please carry an open mind, it defies logic to refuse something you have not looked at...
At that moment, i realised this guy was crazy. I replied with:
I already explained why exorcism is an exploitation. There is a reason why doctors never diagnose a patient with "demons". You were never an atheist, dont lie mate. You watch these extravagant exorcisms on American Christian channels!!! Not on the bbc, not on any science channels. I highly suggest you stop watching cable tv, because it restricts you to seeing the world around you as you see what you want to see. Go watch a muslim or hindu or whatever channel and you will see the exact same scenes.
I dont think you heard the news. Our brains shut down when we die. That is all conscious thought abolished. All body senses inapt. There is no heaven or hell. They are made up concepts that every religion uses to scare the weak minded into remaining non-sceptical of the higher authority. Think right now of how you heard about heaven and hell. You never read a book about the afterlife, you never saw an educational documentary about the afterlife and you were never taught (unless you went to a christian school) about the afterlife in school. The idea of an afterlife was reenforced into you through your parents, church, community and media.
You like the idea of an afterlife and you like the idea that you are following the right religion, but in truth you only follow it because you see it as a norm in your theistic society in america. You think you have a special connection to a guy that died 2000 years ago. You dont.
You warn me that im going to hell. Why should i be scared? Doesnt satan want us to disobey god? Shouldnt i be best mates with him?
The concept of good and bad is so over used and stale in so many cultures and religions, i honestly think christianity is the most boring of them all.
By gods word in the bible, you shouldnt be trying to convert me, you are supposed to stone me to death. - Stop trying to disobey gods word!!!!
Lol, you are delusional and you are reenforcing your beliefs through prejudice and biased sources that arent even sources. Please link me to 1 scientist with a PhD that supports exorcism. Thats my challenge. In return i will link you to 10 scientist that support evolution, another 10 that support the big bang, and another 10 that support gravity (all scientific theories that people say, "are just theories") (ps, i know you know gravity is real, im just showing how it is in the same calibre as other sciences that contradict the bible).
Oh, and dont you dare say that scientists have no say about the origins of the universe, when you yourself are the least qualified and most deluded individual in your little american country town. Why do you feel that you have a say that god is real? Why do you feel that the crazy people on tv that grew up with god are right? Why is your ego bigger than your brain? Why is reason and empirical evidence unmatched by the ravings of psychopaths on television? Why do you think that you have a special connection to man whose existence was only ever recorded through eye-witness testimony from generations prior? Why the fuck do you think demons would target lower class middle aged men in only america, who all happen to have a history of schizophrenia and epilepsy?
Answer this one question: WTF is so convincing about god and jesus, other than what you "think" or "feel" or watch on Christian TV??? Link me something because i wanna know.
It defies logic to believe in something that has no evidence.
PS It is hilarious how you laugh off intelligent design, then remain serious when talking about demons. Because you 'think' they are real, just as they 'think' bananas were made perfectly. Good logic mate.
Good day to you, you patronising moron.
Stole a some bits there from a few comedians btw. Honestly guys, I thought I had heard the end of him, but he sent me this - its comedic christian gold.
lol, wow brother, such needless insults. I still love you man, don't worry. The Lord Loves you, there is no doubt about that, sooner or later you will know he is real. God bless you
Have a wonderful day..Unfortunately for him, I wasn't finished:
You still have not given any evidence. I think that is a valid reason to continue insulting you because your so ignorant and oblivious. Please refute anything I said that you disagree with, instead of patronising me with "i still love you" and "have a wonderful day".
I genuinely hope you read a book and take a shit on your ethnocentric views.
Then he suddenly sprouted back with a more personal approach:
There is no further significance in conveying anything more to you. A person who does not want to accept the reality of God, will deny everything that is put in front of them, even before looking at it. Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it". I gave you all those videos, yet you were naive enough to respond to the document without looking at no more than two videos (Like 3 weeks ago). I am not messaging you to warn you about hell, I am messaging you because I want to fill you with abundance, peace, love, joy, blessings, and happiness. The New Testament is the new covenant that God brought in, we are to love everybody and be forgiving. Stonings are not something we are to do in this day in age, and Jesus has prohibited to do such things. You think we are both here arguing each other to force each other to an absolute belief. I am not here to coerce you into accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior. That path is one you will fulfill for yourself. In regards to me, there is nothing I can be shown, nor anything that I can be given, that will turn me away from Christ. I can be offered 100 billion dollars to turn me away from God, and I wouldn't take it, someone can hold a gun to my head and threaten me to turn to Islam, and I won't, he will have to execute me. This is because I know God is real, and he has let me know he is real. He has completely transformed my life, I cannot even begin to explain to you the wonders The Lord has done in my life. Any evidence you show me can never turn me atheist, it will only serve as learning tool to broaden my understanding, and that's it. I understand why there are many atheists, they want to prove to themselves there is no God to further live a sinful life. They wish to keep using drugs, weed, alcohol, partying, going to clubs, fornicating, masturbating, watching pornography, cursing, blaspheming, being hateful, regretful, resentful, ominous, engage in prostitution or pay prostitutes, vengeful, and pretty much every negative habit.
John 3 :17-21
For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.
18 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe lives condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.”
I am here because I want to save your life. Watch the videos and make an educated decision for yourself. Ever since I came to know Christ, my life has never been the same, and this is what I want for you.
I exploded with my next response, intending to end this once and for all. I probably didn't go far enough with it and the stuff I wrote about was very dumbed down for this guy - so don't expect any Hitchslaps:
Your first statement really applies to you: I feel that there is no further significance in conveying anything more to you. A person who does not want to accept physic evidence, will deny everything that is put in front of them, even before looking at it. Aristotle once said, "It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it".
Again, you have not provided any evidence so i dont understand why you say that everything put in front of me is casted away. I mentioned earlier, all of your videos were trivial and not back by any actual professionals. It is so silly how many Christians disregard the Old Testament. You are basically saying that God supported rape, slavery, homophobia, murder and stoning, but one day changed his mind after billions of years (or thousands if you think the bible overrides various scientific dating techniques). That all-knowing and omniscient god should have seen the social shift of the middle ages coming. Also, why do you keep supporting your beliefs by rehearsing verses from a book that I dont believe in. If I think the book is false and written by primitive and barbaric men in bronze age middle-east, why would anything written in it change my views? If you mean to express the purity of the book then i am not convinced, as i showed in various videos, the bible is plagued with contradictions (which you are yet to have refuted), and the writing of the bible isnt even that good or morally enlightening. I have read greater passages expressing morality in works by Anton LaVey.
"drugs, weed, alcohol": Drugs and alcohol are just as common among Christians. The Bible doesnt deject drugs or drinking so you have no point. I guess we dont shy away from a drink or two because we know its not anyones blood!!!!!
"partying, going to clubs": I dont see anything wrong with "partying" and again there is no correlation with atheism. I actually meet most Christians at parties. You just sound like a lonely person now.
"fornicating": Please explain why you must marry someone before fucking them, it doesnt stop you from divorcing. This is only seen as bad by you because you were raised to think so.
"masturbating, watching pornography": Its the people that cant fornicate that watch porn and masturbate lol.
"blaspheming": Because we spent our whole lives sounded by believers, of cause "god's sake!!" will stick around.
"cursing, being hateful, regretful, resentful, ominous, vengeful, and pretty much every negative habit.": Your just listing emotions!!! You have clearly never met an atheist outside of a debate. I can see why most atheists would be pissed off though, they have spent their entire lives worshipping something only to be proven false. You do realise that 90% of prison inmates are religious right?
"engage in prostitution or pay prostitutes": Again, you have never met an atheist in your restricted little Christian community in fucking America!!! There is no correlation with atheism and Christianity. You are generalising terribly badly. Supply me with some stats you coward. I love how you emphasis "pay prostitutes" it almost sounds as if your saying Christians dont pay their prostitutes lol.
Funny how you didnt mention "rape" or "pedophilia" because you already knew my response to that. cough cough catholic priests. If i were to generalise religious people i need only say one word - ignorance.
These are terrible generalisations but i understand that you are explaining that most atheists dont fear punishment from a god - which is true, yet we it does not mean we dont refrain from committing crimes or "bad habits". Every atheist i know has released themselves from narrow-mindedness and look at the world in a sociological view - our morals and values are shaped by the consequences they have on others e.g. I support homosexual equality because i dont see any consequences to the movement nor any reason to stand back and allow for minority groups to feel suppressed. Another example is that i see drinking, drugs etc to be consequential for yourself and those around you, hence immoral once at a certain boundary. If you need a book to remain moral, then you are not moral in the first place.
Overall I am struggling to understand your logic. Please read this next section with your greatest sincerity, I will demonstrate the most simplest logic. Im not going to refute the existence of a deity because i am unable to disprove an unfalsifiable claim, but i will explain why the Bible is false. You believe the Bible is perfect and written by the word of God, as most other religious people feel about their holy books.
1. The Bible is full of contradictions: As a video i showed earlier explained *link removed*. An example: Jesus' birth has 4 DIFFERENT AND CONTRADICTING RECOUNTS (see John 20:1, Matt 28:1, Mark 16:1 and Luke 24:10)
2. The Bible has many horrible verses that the omniscient god should have known are no fitting for our time: I have already discussed this, but you have made it clear that you choose to ignore them and cherry pick the good verses (classic christian).
3. Genesis is impossible: e.g. a) Incest somehow works, b) only in 2 generations down the line a son starts a city, c) talking snake, d) all women come from the rib of a man (a whole new level of misogyny), e) dinosaurs dont fit in, f) it is impossible for our population to go from 2 to almost 8 billion in 6 thousand years, g) we have carbon dating back to over millions of years, h) dinosaurs were extinct 65 million years ago yet the bible says the earth is only 6 thousands years old (dont say the bible says its longer because this 6 thousand estimate is the longest possible estimate by daters), i)... and you get the point, there is a longer list all you have to do is look up the facts...or just use logic.
4. Noah's Ark is impossible: e.g a) no wooden boat can exceed 100 meters without falling apart, b) incest somehow works, c) if you think two of every species was on the boat that equates to 18 million animals (excluding 1 trillion microorganisms), d) if you think two of every family than you are excepting that animals evolve causing variation (ignoring incest restrictions), e) there were exceptions to the two of everything thing as many species such as ants require millions of males to successfully impregnate a female, f) fish could somehow survive as intense water pressures, g) there isnt enough water on the earth and atmosphere to flood it completely, h) Carnivores went vegan, i) food and fresh water storage, j) waste deposites, k) all trace of the flood was eliminated, l) kangaroos hopped back over to Australia, m)...do i really need to say more.
So basically, you cannot believe this happened without looking like a moron. If you choose to cherry pick details out of these events then you are still stupid. If you choose to take this metaphorically then you are against gods word which he said was not to be misinterpreted. If you choose to disregard the Old Testament, then why the fuck did Jesus have to be tortured in the first place. By this logic, the Bible should not be taken seriously. If the Bible should be disregarded, then the basis of your religion is invalid and without evidence.
You are not debating me for God, your doing it for your pride. I do not respect your logic and so there is no point protecting whatever pride you have. All of what you say has been refuted by others before you - that is why there is less tolerance for religion in the modern world.
Yeah, that last statement was pretty savage. But this guy needed to hear it. His response was pretty weak compared to his previous ones. Here it is:
You never even looked at the other side of the argument to discredit Noah's Ark. Visit 'Answers in Genesis' website, they logically explain how Noah's Ark is actually a very feasible task.
3.) a)Starting at creation this is how we began to multiply, it was not incest until it was outlawed in Leviticus 18:6, genetic code was also pure at point of creation, abnormalities arose from latter day genetic mutations (b) Why do you marvel that someone can create a city? Humans back then were much better nourished, robust, and physiology was much healthier than today's sick population © satanists can make puppets and toys talk, Ghosts (All of which are fallen angels) can also manipulate matter, and make toys talk, what makes you think satan cannot do this himself? 2 Corinthians 11:14 "And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light" I know witchcraft is real, my aunt was cursed by satanists and grew a huge lump in her stomach, and would screech every time she went to church (d) The first woman came from the rib of a man, not "all", obviously all succeeding women came from the womb (e) The Bible speaks of pre-Adamite beasts and animals in Genesis 1, years late in Genesis 2 Adam & Eve are created, so dinosaurs are indeed described in The Bible. (f) The earthly population doubles about every 100 years, if you calculate this starting with 2 people, it is impossible that we are any older than 6000 years, in fact calculation takes us around 4500 years, which is around when the flood occurred, only further proving The Bible. Mathematical population computation only proves The Bible is telling the truth (g) Bible never gives date of The Earth, so Bible is not false according to this carbon dating method. Besides that, nobody was even here to witness those millions of years, these are based on assumptions, this scientific claim cannot be tested. (h) As previously mentioned, The Bible mentions accounts of pre-Humans and ancient beasts, Dinosaurs only further prove the validity of The Bible. It also does not mention the lapse of time from pre-Man to living man, it only says "these are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created.." (i) These facts you speak of are coming only from secular sources, have you looked at the other side of the argument? I am sure you haven't. All these things you have mentioned, I have heard them dozens of times over the years, and everything you will tell me, I have already heard it. The difference is, I am being logical and scientific with my acceptance of God, I have looked at both sides of the arguments, you are being monotone here, and are not being eclectic nor dialectic.
The fact that you mention Anton LaVey as a more appealing inspiration, speaks of your character & overall persona. There is no point in trying to present logic, nor evidence to you anymore. If you were to come to the knowledge of God & satan, you would follow satan. I will not message you anymore. I will leave you with some wisdom though. The absolute truth of the universe is Jesus Christ. All who have died, have came to this knowledge already, all who will die, will come to this knowledge. There are two things certain in your life, death & God. Even though you choose to dwell in darkness, and reject higher authority, does not exempt you from the reality. But I will expose satan's kingdom for you, for I do not want to leave you ignorant. Do not be deceived brother, the devil deceives the masses. Things like : secular music, secular TV, secular movies, sports, drugs, alcohol, weed, fornication, adultery, pornography, tarot card reading, palm reading, crystal ball reading, witchcraft, magic, satanism, occultism, evolution, atheism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, mormonism, confucionism, fame, greed, money, glory, prostitution, video games, illuminati, Rothschild blood line family, Rockefeller family, famous superstars, ghosts, demons, pride, arrogance, competition and pretty much every negative thing of this world are straight from satan and his demons. If he traps you with any of these, he has deceived you and have fallen for his lies. Some of these activities require that you worship satan, i.e., Illuminati, satanism, luciferianism,etc., so that you attain supernatural capabilities. Others are activities that serve to keep you distracted so you never find God, yet other things, are made up ideas or ideologies that serve as deception devices. If you are seeking the truth of life, you have heard it. There is no greater truth you can learn, aside from this. When you come to the knowledge of God, you come to know everything, if you do not know Christ, you know nothing.
My final blow was 2,000 words long. Here it is:
a) Why is there no fossilised evidence of this incest shift in our history, you seem to be making up bullshit. Think hard about where you got this information from - thats right, you either made it up, or received it from a christian apologist website written from people who made it up. Please quote the verse that discusses biology, genetics and mutation in the Bible, thanks.
b) My point about the city is population wise. The Bible claims that the population of the Earth went from 2 to a size enough for a city in merely 2 generations. This is impossible and we have records of actual cities at this supposed time on the other side of the planet. What you say next about health is astonishing when we all know that the life span of a homo sapien at that time was less than 30.
c) The point you make here is irrelevant. You know you are making an exaggerated claim right now - next time you see satan as you so often do, please take a picture and send it to me, thanks. Also I find it peculiar how you claim to see satan all the time - maybe its a bad omen for you. All I can say is that you are labelling everything good in the world as the work of god and everything bad in the world as the work of satan - this logic is irrational. And again I must emphasis, why the fuck is satan targeting your aunt of all people? No disrespect to her, but what is the gain? If anyone you know is displaying abnormalities, I highly suggest you send them to a doctor because stomach pains can be treated.
d) What I meant to say about the rib thing, is that the Bible, like all bronze age philosophical literature, displays women with inequality. The fact that the first woman supposedly came from the rib of a man best describes this. Woman is displayed as the derivative of Man, whilst Man is derivative of God. This is primitive misogyny at its finest, and one step away from the Quran's twisted representation of females. You as a passive male, will deny this.
e) The last dinosaur lived 65 million years before the first human, we never lived side by side. Even our most distant notable ancestor did not exist with dinosaurs. Geological evidence supports this, with the most ancient layers of sediment only containing dinosaurs, other prehistoric creatures and crustaceans.
f) Your calculation for the population of the earth is dumbfounding. You did not take into account disease, disasters, war, famine and other critical elements. You also assumed that each family multiplies without realising that infant mortality, life expectancy, health and nutrition all play a role. We are only now growing extensively as a world population because of hospitals, healthcare and welfare.
g) I knew you would deny the Bible estimate even though I literally wrote that the Bible estimate is the maximum possible time according to the text. There are no loop holes to this estimate as you may think, this is because of the transpiring events that occur in the Bible as well as few historical connections (although it is quite shaky with its historical accuracy at times, cough cough King Herod). Again you are denying already proven facts. This is a fine display of ignorance. Also you just contradicted yourself there. You just said the Bible is correct with the human population, then stated that the Earth probably is 4 Billion years old. You seem to have a double standard, even if the world is 4 Billion years old (which is way off the events that transpire in the Bible) you will continue to justify it and see it no different to 6 thousand years. And to say no one witnessed those millions of years is the cherry on top, because no first hand eye-witness actually writes about God in the Bible, besides the fact that eye-witness testimony is on record the least reliable source of evidence, only shows how trivial the whole story of Yahweh and Jesus Christ is. The scientific "claim" is a SCIENTIFIC "claim" because it HAS been tested through several methods of dating, including carbon dating - it is not assumption and you clearly have little idea of how the age is calculated. You clearly have no trust or respect for individuals with an education, in fact you clearly have a fear of the word science. You are a sophophobic, demon fearing simpleton.
h) Again, dinosaurs never lived side by side with humans, this is not the Flintstones. Please quote the verse that specifies the existence of dinosaurs - it seems strange that the Bible would just briefly skip through or vaguely describe a whole group of enormous creatures, its almost as if the barbaric middle-eastern Jews hadnt actually heard of dinosaurs when they were writing this book that borrows from other stories and folklore (sarcasm, but your simple nature wont realise).
i) I think its rather the opposite. I borrow research from neutral sources written by well-established professors and doctors that spent their whole lives in that field. You on the other hand, rely on the "christian" answer to everything even if its not specified in the Bible. You literally just told me to look up the feasibility of Noah's Ark on the "Answers in Genesis" website. The whole webpage you told me to read is all sourced from one guy called (not doctor or professor) Ken Ham, the CEO of the fucking website!!! This Ken Ham is an uneducated ozzy bloke that managed to inherit millions of dollars, and doubles his profits from subjectively writing about topics he is not qualified to pursue. When you research you need to stop throwing around key words like "Bibles explanation of..." or "Gods thoughts on.." because you will only find websites righten by Christian apologists. None of the sources I find ever even mention a god or atheism or whatever, they only state facts through critical analysis and examination and borrow from more established individuals with an even more impressive resume. I dont even think there is such thing as a nonsecular science. Yeah btw, my challenge is still on the table - Please link me to 1 scientist with a PhD that supports exorcism. In return I will link you 10 scientists that support evolution, another 10 that support the big bang, and another 10 that support gravity (all scientific theories that people say, "are just theories"). Im sorry to say, but you are not being eclectic - please back your claims with physical evidence other than the book that is in dispute, much appreciated. I dont think you realise that most atheist were previously religious, and so we have an extensive knowledge of the "other side of the argument". I do not doubt that you have heard it all before, because your responses are perfectly articulated to avoid tackling the actual statements - a thing I call ignorance.
Anton LaVey used the title "Satanic Bible" as irony - I dont think there is a devil alive or at least worth worshipping. If you want to say that the fact I think Anton LaVey is appealing speaks of my persona, I will take it as a compliment. Being described as the foundation of secular philosophy and dogma is quite nice, thank you.
"secular music, secular TV, secular movies, sports, drugs, alcohol, weed, fornication, adultery, pornography, tarot card reading, palm reading, crystal ball reading, witchcraft, magic, satanism, occultism, evolution, atheism, buddhism, hinduism, islam, mormonism, confucionism, fame, greed, money, glory, prostitution, video games, illuminati, Rothschild blood line family, Rockefeller family, famous superstars, ghosts, demons, pride, arrogance, competition and pretty much every negative thing of this world are straight from satan and his demons"
Well you proved my point there. You do label pretty much everything bad under the banner of Satan - your local church has taught you well. You clearly think highly of the devil, you seem to think he has a great imagination and a really random scale of evil. You have a few weird things in this big chunk of random stuff in here that are clearly not the product of Satan.
1. Being secular means not believing in the devil or demons either.
2. Doing sport if anything is good for you.
3. Pornography - again, if you cant fornicate, you'd be the one watching porn.
4. Tarot card, palm and crystal ball reading? Are you fucking serious? Do I need to explain to you why some broken old woman in a tent doesnt actually know the future? All jokes aside, you are seriously gullible.
5. Occultism? The very thing you believe in?
6. Evolution is the only science that you hate because it debunks your religion. If satan is behind evolution, i dont care, it doesnt stop it from actually happening.
7. Buddhism? So satan taught Asians how to be peaceful? Thats seriously out of character. Seems like a nice guy when you think about it.
8.Mormonism? A group that hates the same devil you hate? Alrighty then.
9. Confucianism? Please explain what is wrong about this.
10. Fame, greed, glory - You just described the Judea Christian God in three words, congrats
11. Video games? Well I now know for sure that your an old man in rural southern USA.
12. Illuminati? Fucking hell you actually believe the illuminati are real? The illuminati is a fucking joke revived to cause controversy by modern conspiracist. You think the illuminati has enough evidence to be real, but every aspect of science is just theory. You are insane.
13. Rothschild bloodline? Thats is oddly specific. Yet another conspiracy theory with absolutely no credibility. Are you fucking for real? Wikipedia describes this theory really well - "Many conspiracy theories about the Rothschild family have been identified as resulting from anti-Semitic prejudice reaching back several hundred years, and not as a result of evidence.[84][85][86][87][88]"
14. Please explain the validity of the Rockefeller family's involvement in the New World Order conspiracy. I see no genuine correlation.
I think its evident that your just randomly spitting out really lame conspiracies.
15. Famous superstars? Dude, you're just feeling spiteful towards those more successful than you. You selfish bastard. There is a reason why you havent achieved anything in life - stop refusing to take responsibility for your mistakes and failure. Dont shift the blame onto the supernatural - you are a grown man. If you stayed in school, we wouldnt be communicating right now.
16. Pride?!!! What? You dont take pride in the shit you do? Do you not have pride for Christianity? Look up the definition of pride. I guess satan has deceived you.
17. Competition? Oh I get it, you thought it was very healthy when Joshua stormed through raping and pillaging WITHOUT competition or resistance. I see how pure your logic is now.
God doesnt hate any of these practices or learnings, you hate them and condemn them, and use God as your shield. You are pathetic.
"When you come to the knowledge of God, you come to know everything, if you do not know Christ, you know nothing (Jon Snow)."
Your retardation alone, disproves this statement.
This is how it should go -
"When you come to the knowledge of God, you become disappointed, if you do not know Christ, you have more time on your hands."
Im so glad that natural selection is real, because your overly superstitious genes wont be able to pass on without sex (a practice that you wont ever experience).
I have no more time for your fanatics, BELIEVE ME I HAVE MORE
A little Hitchens reference at the end there
He hasn't responded since, but I will inform you all if he does in the near future.
In conclusion, I do regret the level of hate I sent him, but overall I think it was a good experience and hopefully he learnt a thing or two from it as well. His views were effectively, abnormal. Never had I ever thought that people could actually think this way. Truely an incredible breakthrough for socialisation and in-group out-group theory.
What are your thoughts? Who won? Did anyone else have an experience similar to this?
Heres the document I forgot to include:
God is Real (& all the evidence you will ever need)
God is real my brothers and sisters
Of this I am unequivocally sure. Plain and simple, this is the Truth. Anyone claiming otherwise is either willfully ignorant or ought to harm you. Now, why do you think you feel bad whenever you deny God? It is because he is real and wants you to know that. I too was an Atheist, hardcore atheist at that. I would think of every logical argument as to why he could not be real. Eventually I asked myself, what am I trying to prove? Why do I seek this? If you truly believe something isn't real, you dismiss it in a heartbeat. Like if I tell you, there is a cookie monster in the closet, you would dismiss it immediately, you wouldn't think twice about it, you wouldn't even argue it. Then why do atheists seek God so much? Why do atheists waste every bit of energy denying him? The simple difference with God, is that he is real and wants you to know that, this is why you feel an emptiness in your heart every time you deny him. What sets Christianity apart from other religions is that 'gods' from other religions like Buddha, Allah, Muhammad, Confucius, etc. never claimed to be God, they claimed to be teachers or prophets. Jesus, however, claimed to be God in the flesh, and he who believes in him also believes in God.*Logical Reasons For God*
1. If all explosions result in nothing but destruction, then explain to me how the greatest explosion in the history of the universe ever resulted in these beautiful words before you? Yes, last time I checked, hydrogen bombs and atomic bombs never produced a single living organism, much less any beauty. So how can an explosion quindecillion times more violent ever do this?
2. If the macro-evolution theory were real then we would find an overwhelming amount of evidence in transitional bones of apes transforming to humans. Because to get from ape to human would require thousands (if not millions) of times longer, thus, such overwhelming evidence would be left behind. But the reality is that we have NEVER found such evidence, and this is coming from the top anthropologists in the world. Skeptics then claim that these transitional bones were dissolved over a period of time. But this is an ignorance fallacy, because if this were the case, we would not find ancient dinosaur fossils which are thousands of times older than man or ape. We also wouldn’t find ancient human or ancient primate bones. In fact this is all that has ever been found, human or ape bones and nothing in between. This completely disproves the theory that we evolved from monkeys, or from a common ancestor, because such evidence is fairytale.
3. If God does not exist, then take me through this infiniteness and show me everything there is to see, show me everything that is real and everything that exists. For if atheists are so sure of their delusions I want them to literally take me by the hand and journey me through EVERY space and dimension that has ever existed in the history of everything. (But no person can ever do this and they never will, therefore it is actually quite foolish to say there is no God, atheists are really agnostics at heart, because for you to claim there is no God you have to had seen that there actually is no God.)
4. Also, if the macro-evolution were real, then we would have evidence showing the creation of genes. If you look at all the scientific literature, there is not one instance in DNA ever creating genes! This absolutely debunks the evolution theory at its core because evolutionists claim that we evolved from bacteria or some micro-organism, but for this to be true, these organisms would have to create genes, but we have never found any evidence for this! There is a reason they call the evolution theory a ‘theory’ and not a ‘law’ or ‘fact’. All there is evidence for is the mutation of existing DNA and the use of current information, but never the creation for it. This explains why all dogs still carry the same original DNA strand! Yes, all dogs still have the same DNA. The only difference is that dogs have been bred to output a specific gene, thus, this explains how we use mutation of genes to get the variation in types of dogs. But DNA has NEVER been created in this whole process, only current information has been changed. All of this also explains why we as humans are also varying. Things like the environment, nutrients, minerals, toxins, and other things affect the genes within us. But these things never create genes! The evolution theory is a best-selling fictional story and nothing more, scientific evidence proves it!
5. And why is it that there is more historical evidence in the existence of Jesus Christ than any ancient human that ever lived (Even more than Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Archimedes, Hippocrates, Julius Caesar, and others)? If you deny Jesus’ existence you are literally denying the existence of Darwin, Abraham Lincoln, the holocaust, the people I mentioned, and thousands of others.
6. [size=medium]If God and Jesus do not exist, why is it that ghosts and demonic spirits (i.e. haunted houses, demonic possessions, poltergeists, etc.) surrender in the word of God and Jesus Christ? If you really need physical proof, find an officially haunted house that has records and accounts of people being haunted and start reading the Bible, it’ll only take a few minutes before you start feeling, hearing, and seeing the presence around you being vexed, because if indeed Jesus and God are not real, then these entities would not be bothered at all by the name of some fictional being. Or better yet, get a Ouija board and use it until you are able to get a spirit/ghost in. Once you are being haunted and scared to death at night, read the Bible and call in the name of The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit. You will be amazed in the power of Jesus Christ and will feel so puny for
