RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
December 15, 2016 at 6:20 am
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2016 at 6:23 am by AceBoogie.)
(December 15, 2016 at 6:10 am)Alex K Wrote: I don't think free will in the way you would like to have it can exist at all, to me, it doesn't really figure into the equation whether the universe is deterministic or not.
It has nothing to do with how I would like to have it, and we can leave a debate about free will for the philosophy section of the forum.
Here I'm specifically interested with how theists, and more specifically Christians (though theists of other faiths are welcome to comment here too) reconcile the contradiction between the idea of god giving us free will, yet at the same time being an omniscient, omnipotent being who has already predetermined everything that will ever happen.
Also, yes, I understand that our choices are quite limited, if you really delve into it. We are human beings; that right there limits us to very few choices if you want to get technical. That doesn't mean we don't have free will to make certain choices and quite honestly the determinstic view of reality can be a bit silly to me at times. Yes, cause and effect rules the universe and I don't think anyone denies that. But like I said I think we should leave that for the philosophy section as I want to specifically focus on how theists reconcile this very obvious contradiction.
edit: Also I'm not concerned with that, I'm concerned with how an intelligent being that created everything (including the future) can also give us free will to choose to do anything. This has little to do with determinism because god is, supposedly, an intelligent force that has created things the way they are. He knows if you're going to pick your nose at 5:06 P.M. on the 25th of December 2016 because he created you to do that. Is free will compatible with that? If so, please explain.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
