RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
December 15, 2016 at 12:09 pm
(This post was last modified: December 15, 2016 at 12:16 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(December 15, 2016 at 12:07 pm)pool the great Wrote:(December 15, 2016 at 11:57 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Um, sure lol.
Okay so this is confusing. You're agreeing with me and still not agreeing with me? C'mon.
Not agreeing with you about what? I agree that it would be a lie on His part, I only said it like that because it seemed like a silly scenario to me.
(December 15, 2016 at 11:52 am)RozKek Wrote:(December 15, 2016 at 11:39 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
Of course I can go to Heaven. But if He saw that I went to Hell, that means I went to Hell.
Exactly, let's say that is the case, in reality. Let's say God sees that I am going to hell, then I am going to hell as you said, and if you agree with that you do not agree with that I can go to heaven because he saw me go to hell. Then it does mean that I am doomed and determined to go to hell, because everything I will do no matter will result in me going to hell, because that is what god saw. Now if he saw me go to hell, then I cannot go to heaven because that means God was wrong, which contradicts God's nature.
The problem with your way around this is that you say that I can change my mind and then go to heaven, whilst God saw me go to hell, which means that whether you're aware of it not, you're implying that God could not see my change of mind for some reason, and that is contradictory. You are then saying that when God looked into the future and saw me go to hell, for some reason he didn't see me change my mind that would lead me going to heaven? If he can see the future then he will literally see or know every single thing you do including all your changes in mind, regrets etc that lead to the final result; hell or heaven.
Again, it's not that you "cannot" go to Heaven. It's that he already saw what you already did.
He isn't "looking into the future." That would suggest that He's in the present, looking at the future, which is not the case. He is not in the past, present, or future. He exists outside of time altogether. So no, he isn't necessarily looking into the future as a fortune teller would. He's seeing everything happen all at once. He's already seeing what actions you will be taking or not taking that will get you to wherever you go. He's already seeing what your mind has done, is doing, and will do. If you intend on doing something, but then change your mind and do something else, He already knew you would do that because he's already seen you do it.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
