Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?

[Pat Mustard]

Agreed, rob. Awesome vid btw!

I don't get how this "outside of time" idea is supposed to somehow reconcile this contradiction we have here.

It doesn't, at all. It's just obfuscation.

And thanks very much! I got plenty more where that came from

iow, I propose that all logically consistent and well defined notions of free will are compatible with determinism.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. If we're discussing hard determinism, as in everything could be predicted from the word go, then I don't see any kind of "free will" being possible, that means anything.

By "free will", I would mean that intelligent agents have a genuine choice of multiple actions, and they could actually choose any of them. If it can be predicted what the agent will do with complete accuracy, then I no longer see it as any kind of choice. It's just a sequence of causes and effects. All we have is the illusion of choice.

If you define "choice"/"free will" so that it covers no real choice at all, then it's compatible, but meaningless IMO.

It's probably impossible to say we're in a deterministic universe or not. Even if every action of everything is predetermined, the calculations are so complicated & involved that the only way to solve them is by running the universe.