Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 4, 2025, 1:51 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
(December 15, 2016 at 10:31 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:
(December 15, 2016 at 10:27 am)pool the great Wrote: Say, the Lord has seen me eat ice-cream tomorrow noon at around 12. Do I have the ability to eat a chicken roll instead or will I have to strictly stick with the ice-cream?

What? Not sure if this is a serious question. Obviously you can choose to eat whatever you want. The point is He already knows what you will choose because he's already seen it happen.

Then he doesn't have a choice. He will simply eat an ice cream tomorrow at noon tomorrow and he has no choice to do otherwise.

He won't choose to eat an ice cream. He will have to eat an ice cream.

(December 15, 2016 at 9:07 am)Anomalocaris Wrote: For me, the closest approximation to an empirical definition of free will would be if the possessor of free will can uniquely reduce the number of possible outcomes in a particular situation in a way he alone could demonstrably predict, and yet there is no other agent whosoever who could even theoretically Possess the capability to predict how the possessor of the free will would reduce these possible outcomes.

It's not simply that no agent could possibly have that capability but that capability doesn't even cut it at all even if the possessor had it. So what if the posesser could always correctly predict what action he would take? All that would do is beg the question of what caused him to be able to make such a prediction. If it's himself then what caused him to cause himself? And so on. It can't go on forever. Infinite regress problem. He will never get to be causa sui. Was there no cause? Then he wasn't the cause. Either way, no free will.

Contra-causal/incompatabilist free will is a complete non-concept, entirely incoherent. All the ability of being able to always correctly predict your future action would do is beg the question.

Friedrich Nietzsche Wrote:The desire for "freedom of will" in the superlative, metaphysical sense, such as still holds sway, unfortunately, in the minds of the half-educated, the desire to bear the entire and ultimate responsibility for one's actions oneself, and to absolve God, the world, ancestors, chance, and society therefrom, involves nothing less than to be precisely this causa sui, and, with more than Munchausen daring, to pull oneself up into existence by the hair, out of the slough of nothingness.

And here in video form is a complete knock down argument against free will. Most succinct I've seen. The true logical impossibility of incompatabilist free will:



Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 6:18 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 8:50 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by Edwardo Piet - December 19, 2016 at 1:41 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:35 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:44 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:58 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:04 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 2:55 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 16, 2016 at 7:59 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 17, 2016 at 7:37 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 17, 2016 at 8:26 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 3:43 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 4:33 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 23, 2016 at 5:08 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will ShinyCrystals 265 26430 December 6, 2023 at 12:21 am
Last Post: Harry Haller
  If god can't lie, does that mean he can't do everything? Silver 184 20346 September 10, 2021 at 4:20 pm
Last Post: Dundee
  Is God weaker than theists imagine, and is mankind stronger? invalid 6 2664 March 5, 2021 at 6:38 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Should Theists have the burden of proof at the police and court? Vast Vision 16 5867 July 10, 2017 at 1:34 pm
Last Post: Jesster
  God and theists. WinterHold 96 37787 May 23, 2017 at 12:13 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Good theists... Parts 1 and 2 merged ScienceAf 72 13672 October 12, 2016 at 2:21 pm
Last Post: Kingpin
  what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ? jenny1972 94 17095 November 17, 2015 at 11:52 am
Last Post: drfuzzy
  Theists: Can god read my mind? robvalue 27 7502 July 25, 2015 at 8:47 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  Can I be sued for saving someone's life? Yes I can Dystopia 25 6561 July 14, 2015 at 5:47 pm
Last Post: Jackalope
  What do the theists here think about masturbation and porn? rado84 177 37619 July 13, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Last Post: Catholic_Lady



Users browsing this thread: 17 Guest(s)