Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: February 9, 2025, 6:21 pm

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
Possible definitions for a "free choice":

1) My choice cannot be predicted beforehand

2) Given a replay with an identical scenario, it is possible for me to take alternative action

I won't hold too much with 1 as it is also question begging in a sense, although I think it's a sound definition.

Let's look at 2. We have the scenario where, in a certain reality, I'm about to make a choice. Let's say for simplicity I'm about to choose a number between 1 and 10.

Let's also say precognition is possible. So it is previously knowable, at all points before this decision is made, that I will pick the number X. What number do I pick? I pick the number X, of course.

Now let's recreate this exact scenario again. The reality is the same. The precognition is the same. As before, it's knowable that I will pick X. What do I pick? X again. I can't pick anything else.

Replay it as many times as you like; I can't take another course of action without changing the scenario.

Some people will probably try to argue that the precognition information isn't part of the scenario. I'd say it certainly is. If the precognition information is different, then the scenario is different. It's a different reality, on a different pre-programmed arc. And in that different scenario, I'd again only have one choice.

But in the single run through that we are assumed to have, if there's possible precognition, all we have is a list of events that will happen, and no amount of trying to choose can vary from it. So no real choices are being made. All these arguments that both can exist seem to involve the prediction being unstated, or even changing, to match what happens. This is entirely in reverse as to what precognition actually means.

I'd also like to know how the information can previously exist as to what selection I will make, from 1 to 10, if I have a free choice. "Magic" isn't acceptable to me. I haven't chosen yet. I can pick any number. Am I predictable, or not?
Feel free to send me a private message.
Please visit my website here! It's got lots of information about atheism/theism and support for new atheists.

Index of useful threads and discussions
Index of my best videos
Quickstart guide to the forum
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 6:18 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 8:50 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:19 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:35 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:44 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:52 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 11:58 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:04 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:08 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 2:55 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 15, 2016 at 12:06 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 16, 2016 at 7:59 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 17, 2016 at 7:37 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 17, 2016 at 8:26 am
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 3:43 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 4:16 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 18, 2016 at 4:33 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by robvalue - December 21, 2016 at 6:46 pm
RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist? - by deleteduser12345 - December 23, 2016 at 5:08 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
  A thing about religious (and other) people and the illusion of free will ShinyCrystals 265 26487 December 6, 2023 at 12:21 am
Last Post: Harry Haller
  If god can't lie, does that mean he can't do everything? Silver 184 20376 September 10, 2021 at 4:20 pm
Last Post: Dundee
  Is God weaker than theists imagine, and is mankind stronger? invalid 6 2672 March 5, 2021 at 6:38 am
Last Post: arewethereyet
  Should Theists have the burden of proof at the police and court? Vast Vision 16 5876 July 10, 2017 at 1:34 pm
Last Post: Jesster
  God and theists. WinterHold 96 37798 May 23, 2017 at 12:13 pm
Last Post: Crossless2.0
  Good theists... Parts 1 and 2 merged ScienceAf 72 13697 October 12, 2016 at 2:21 pm
Last Post: Kingpin
  what do non/anti-religion Deists and Theists believe ? jenny1972 94 17098 November 17, 2015 at 11:52 am
Last Post: drfuzzy
  Theists: Can god read my mind? robvalue 27 7506 July 25, 2015 at 8:47 am
Last Post: ignoramus
  Can I be sued for saving someone's life? Yes I can Dystopia 25 6562 July 14, 2015 at 5:47 pm
Last Post: Jackalope
  What do the theists here think about masturbation and porn? rado84 177 37778 July 13, 2015 at 1:33 pm
Last Post: Catholic_Lady



Users browsing this thread: 22 Guest(s)