RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
December 21, 2016 at 6:46 pm
(This post was last modified: December 21, 2016 at 6:48 pm by robvalue.)
Possible definitions for a "free choice":
1) My choice cannot be predicted beforehand
2) Given a replay with an identical scenario, it is possible for me to take alternative action
I won't hold too much with 1 as it is also question begging in a sense, although I think it's a sound definition.
Let's look at 2. We have the scenario where, in a certain reality, I'm about to make a choice. Let's say for simplicity I'm about to choose a number between 1 and 10.
Let's also say precognition is possible. So it is previously knowable, at all points before this decision is made, that I will pick the number X. What number do I pick? I pick the number X, of course.
Now let's recreate this exact scenario again. The reality is the same. The precognition is the same. As before, it's knowable that I will pick X. What do I pick? X again. I can't pick anything else.
Replay it as many times as you like; I can't take another course of action without changing the scenario.
Some people will probably try to argue that the precognition information isn't part of the scenario. I'd say it certainly is. If the precognition information is different, then the scenario is different. It's a different reality, on a different pre-programmed arc. And in that different scenario, I'd again only have one choice.
But in the single run through that we are assumed to have, if there's possible precognition, all we have is a list of events that will happen, and no amount of trying to choose can vary from it. So no real choices are being made. All these arguments that both can exist seem to involve the prediction being unstated, or even changing, to match what happens. This is entirely in reverse as to what precognition actually means.
I'd also like to know how the information can previously exist as to what selection I will make, from 1 to 10, if I have a free choice. "Magic" isn't acceptable to me. I haven't chosen yet. I can pick any number. Am I predictable, or not?
1) My choice cannot be predicted beforehand
2) Given a replay with an identical scenario, it is possible for me to take alternative action
I won't hold too much with 1 as it is also question begging in a sense, although I think it's a sound definition.
Let's look at 2. We have the scenario where, in a certain reality, I'm about to make a choice. Let's say for simplicity I'm about to choose a number between 1 and 10.
Let's also say precognition is possible. So it is previously knowable, at all points before this decision is made, that I will pick the number X. What number do I pick? I pick the number X, of course.
Now let's recreate this exact scenario again. The reality is the same. The precognition is the same. As before, it's knowable that I will pick X. What do I pick? X again. I can't pick anything else.
Replay it as many times as you like; I can't take another course of action without changing the scenario.
Some people will probably try to argue that the precognition information isn't part of the scenario. I'd say it certainly is. If the precognition information is different, then the scenario is different. It's a different reality, on a different pre-programmed arc. And in that different scenario, I'd again only have one choice.
But in the single run through that we are assumed to have, if there's possible precognition, all we have is a list of events that will happen, and no amount of trying to choose can vary from it. So no real choices are being made. All these arguments that both can exist seem to involve the prediction being unstated, or even changing, to match what happens. This is entirely in reverse as to what precognition actually means.
I'd also like to know how the information can previously exist as to what selection I will make, from 1 to 10, if I have a free choice. "Magic" isn't acceptable to me. I haven't chosen yet. I can pick any number. Am I predictable, or not?
Feel free to send me a private message.
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