RE: Theists: How can predetermined fate and free will coexist?
December 22, 2016 at 12:11 pm
(This post was last modified: December 22, 2016 at 12:18 pm by AceBoogie.)
(December 22, 2016 at 11:54 am)robvalue Wrote: Strangely enough, science is showing more and more that free will is bollocks. If it's eventually shown everything is purely deterministic, it would in theory be possible for an external being to "know" the future, simply by calculation.
But most religious people require us to have genuine choices so that God has something to judge and isn't simply assessing robots he set in motion. This logically knows out procognition/fate, and I don't know why they cling to it so tightly. What difference does that make? Why can't God just not know? Would that make it suddenly unworthy of worship? I think it would make God more likeable.
In what way is free will bollocks? In the sense that we are constrained by physical limitations in our brains and bodies? Sure, many, if not all, of our decisions are the result of cause and effect and of certain conditions we have no control over. Does that mean we never make our own decisions? Or that we are not responsible for anything we do? Did Sam Harris not choose to become an author or a neuroscientist?
Are fat people destined to overeat forever? Are criminals destined to commit crimes forever? I'm just not sure how far we can really take this determinism thing.
Edit: Basically... while I'm willing to admit that our scope of conscious decision is probably much smaller than we think it is... I don't think it's fair to say "free will is bollocks"... though I suppose it depends on what your definition of free will is.
And yes I believe a theist admitting to either fate or free will being a lie would completely crumble their idea of an all-powerful, all-knowing or all-loving god.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
