(December 24, 2016 at 2:27 pm)Chas Wrote:(December 24, 2016 at 1:37 pm)AAA Wrote: Well that was about 10 assertions.
No, they are all backed by evidence.
Quote:More complex molecules are not the same as genomes.
They are building blocks.
Quote:You can't just assert that given chemicals, life will start.
I didn't actually assert that.
Quote:You not only have to form the molecules, but you must explain their sophisticated sequence that allows them to reproduce.
There exist self-replicating molecules - what's to explain?
Quote:It is not a given we are just constantly moving toward a state of higher complexity and functionality.
Who said it was? Not I.
Quote:And were you referring to the long term evolution experiment where the bacteria gained the ability to metabolize citrate? They already possessed the enzymes necessary to break it down, it's just that they could not take it in under aerobic conditions.
Where do you come by that bit of misinformation?
Quote:It could easily be explained by a degrading cell wall, which is not even entirely dependent on DNA for its proper replication. And I think natural selection limits the accumulating mutations. Your genome can only take so much mutation before it is rendered functionless.
You do not understand the Lenski experiment. Try again.
No, I think I do understand it.
"Throughout the duration of the LTEE, there has existed an ecological opportunity in the form of an abundant, but unused, resource. DM25 medium contains not only glucose, but also citrate at a high concentration. The inability to use citrate as an energy source under oxic conditions has long been a defining characteristic of E. coli as a species. Nevertheless, E. coli is not wholly indifferent to citrate. It uses a ferric dicitrate transport system for iron acquisition, although citrate does not enter the cell in this process. It also has a complete tricarboxylic acid cycle, and can thus metabolize citrate internally during aerobic growth on other substrates. E. coli is able to ferment citrate under anoxic conditions if a cosubstrate is available for reducing power. The only known barrier to aerobic growth on citrate is its inability to transport citrate under oxic conditions. Indeed, atypical E. coli that grow aerobically on citrate (Cit+) have been isolated from agricultural and clinical settings, and were found to harbor plasmids, presumably acquired from other species, that encode citrate transporters."
Note that they say that the only known barrier to aerobic growth on citrate is its inability to tranport citrate under anoxic conditions. This is what I said.
here is the article:
Blout, Z.D., Borland, C.Z., Lenski, R.E., 2008. Historical contingency and the evolution of a key innovation in an experimental population of Escherichia coli. CrossMark. 105(23) 7899-7906.