(January 4, 2017 at 1:23 am)Esquilax Wrote: Is it a complex designer? A being capable of engineering DNA on a grand scale, with wants and purposes for that design? Wouldn't it then need a designer of its own, since the only thing capable of explaining complex information is intelligence? There's only a few options that can get through this dilemma: either you're left with an infinite regress of intelligent designers designing each other, which is absurd and doesn't leave any form of god any kind of advantage, or at some point the intelligent life which designed our life would have to have arisen naturally. In which case ID proponents also believe that complex systems can arise naturally... they've just arbitrarily shifted it back however many steps because they really want our life to be designed.
Now, they could also posit the supernatural, beyond time, misapplication of cosmology woo woo sort of designer, but if they did that, suddenly all those arguments about what is observable and evident have gone out the window, showing off that this whole endeavor was one big post hoc rationalization to begin with.
It also does not make the question of the origin of god invalid. If god lives outside of our reality, he still exists in some other reality... and in that reality, he is either created by an even greater intellect --so that it's intellects all the way up, to coin a phrase-- or it's possible for life of far greater complexity than we can imagine to occur naturally and evolve into a god. And if it can happen there... then it can happen. So why wouldn't it happen in our reality?
The idea that the question of infinite regress can be dealt with by shunting god off into another dimension isn't rational. If premise A is always true, but it's not true in setting B, then... premise A is not always true.
"Well, evolution is a theory. It is also a fact. And facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape- like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered."
-Stephen Jay Gould
-Stephen Jay Gould