1) I’m not saying there is another universe, but by default an originating cause (ie. Creator God) existing prior to the creation of this universe would not be in this universe. I’m not saying he exists in another universe, I’m just saying he exists outside of this one. Whether that’s in nothingness or another universe is all irrelevant. My only point on this was omnipotent = all necessary power to affect anything logically within this universe.
2) So you admit that your expectations for the threshold for believability are unrealistic?
2a) Yes I mean that the destruction is an eternal consequence (i.e. not living afterwards for an eternity to come)?
Mark 9.43-44 and Matthew 25.41, Revelation 14.9-11- all talk about the flames or the smoke going on forever, not the torment or the soul’s existence
Revelation 20:10 is about Satan and yes he is and will be tormented forever, but angels never were human and it’s unknown (and unlikely) if they have a soul.
Matthew 25:46 the translations I read are all “eternal punishment” contrasting with “eternal life” and I addressed in the beginning that destruction is an eternal punishment
3)The Church of God as accepted by general Christendom and I feel is the most Biblically supported stance is the sum of believers that accept Christ as their Savior and believe him to be the only way to salvation. Is that what I wasn’t clear on?
3a)here are 191 references I’m sure some of which apply to Satan as well.
To answer “I meant, how would you determine that it was God speaking and that they were not simply your own thoughts in your head? “Here are some guidelines.
God's word will never contradict Scripture, will never tempt you to do wrong, rarely the loudest one.
The results of your actions upon that voice we call the “spiritual fruits” are a sign that you’re heeding the right voice and that it’s God’s.
“Or you hear literal voice, clear as a normal voice, talking to you??” If you were talking to me I would determine you weren’t me because you’d be saying things I wasn’t intending on saying. You’d have knowledge and language outside of mine. If my senses are reliable; that it’s from an external source.
In your example if you perceive it from “someone” else then it’s not from you. It could be from another personality if you’re schizophrenic or an external source. How you determine what the source is would be what I was curious about.
“You may give some verses in the Bible, if you wish - and indeed can - to determine which of them really is.” Psalm 119:66, Philippians 1:9, Proverbs 15:14 for a few
No I was saying that one person listens to X and the other can’t hear X, not that they have 2 different Holy Spirits.
The morality part yes you understood
3b) I think you are referring to the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15. This argument always boils down to the difference between murder and justified killing (ie. punishment for a crime/sin). If God truly told them to kill and it wasn’t justified then God would be not righteous (as it would be murder), and therefore immoral
5a) No, Sheol is not the lake of fire most consider hell.
Luke 16.22-23 says Hades or place of the dead... also not the lake of fire people consider hell. It is the NT or Greek version of Sheol. You’ll see from Revelation 20:1-6 that it would be completely illogical for death and hell (if it were what Hades meant) were thrown into the lake of fire ( what everyone sees as hell). The chiliastic view of Luke is that it is from Sheol or a “judgment waiting room” if you will, where some suffer some don’t prior to judgement. I personally feel the correct doctrine is that when the Bible speaks about Jesus conquering death (by his ressurection), that he closed the doors to Sheol until the judgement day.
5b) here are 653 references to heaven. it’s meant in several ways but the only relevant way is the third heaven or the Kingdom of Heaven/God. Hebrews 9:15 and 1 Peter1:4 talk about who can inherit the kingdom. It is also referred to as Abraham’s bosom.
I don’t believe Heaven is a place people automatically go immediately after they die.
6a) so you want me to give you a list of verses why God is good? That would be a really long one. Is that really necessary? Also “good” is very subjective as we define it, perhaps define it for us.
2) So you admit that your expectations for the threshold for believability are unrealistic?
2a) Yes I mean that the destruction is an eternal consequence (i.e. not living afterwards for an eternity to come)?
Mark 9.43-44 and Matthew 25.41, Revelation 14.9-11- all talk about the flames or the smoke going on forever, not the torment or the soul’s existence
Revelation 20:10 is about Satan and yes he is and will be tormented forever, but angels never were human and it’s unknown (and unlikely) if they have a soul.
Matthew 25:46 the translations I read are all “eternal punishment” contrasting with “eternal life” and I addressed in the beginning that destruction is an eternal punishment
3)The Church of God as accepted by general Christendom and I feel is the most Biblically supported stance is the sum of believers that accept Christ as their Savior and believe him to be the only way to salvation. Is that what I wasn’t clear on?
3a)here are 191 references I’m sure some of which apply to Satan as well.
To answer “I meant, how would you determine that it was God speaking and that they were not simply your own thoughts in your head? “Here are some guidelines.
God's word will never contradict Scripture, will never tempt you to do wrong, rarely the loudest one.
The results of your actions upon that voice we call the “spiritual fruits” are a sign that you’re heeding the right voice and that it’s God’s.
“Or you hear literal voice, clear as a normal voice, talking to you??” If you were talking to me I would determine you weren’t me because you’d be saying things I wasn’t intending on saying. You’d have knowledge and language outside of mine. If my senses are reliable; that it’s from an external source.
In your example if you perceive it from “someone” else then it’s not from you. It could be from another personality if you’re schizophrenic or an external source. How you determine what the source is would be what I was curious about.
“You may give some verses in the Bible, if you wish - and indeed can - to determine which of them really is.” Psalm 119:66, Philippians 1:9, Proverbs 15:14 for a few
No I was saying that one person listens to X and the other can’t hear X, not that they have 2 different Holy Spirits.
The morality part yes you understood
3b) I think you are referring to the Amalekites in 1 Samuel 15. This argument always boils down to the difference between murder and justified killing (ie. punishment for a crime/sin). If God truly told them to kill and it wasn’t justified then God would be not righteous (as it would be murder), and therefore immoral
5a) No, Sheol is not the lake of fire most consider hell.
Luke 16.22-23 says Hades or place of the dead... also not the lake of fire people consider hell. It is the NT or Greek version of Sheol. You’ll see from Revelation 20:1-6 that it would be completely illogical for death and hell (if it were what Hades meant) were thrown into the lake of fire ( what everyone sees as hell). The chiliastic view of Luke is that it is from Sheol or a “judgment waiting room” if you will, where some suffer some don’t prior to judgement. I personally feel the correct doctrine is that when the Bible speaks about Jesus conquering death (by his ressurection), that he closed the doors to Sheol until the judgement day.
5b) here are 653 references to heaven. it’s meant in several ways but the only relevant way is the third heaven or the Kingdom of Heaven/God. Hebrews 9:15 and 1 Peter1:4 talk about who can inherit the kingdom. It is also referred to as Abraham’s bosom.
I don’t believe Heaven is a place people automatically go immediately after they die.
6a) so you want me to give you a list of verses why God is good? That would be a really long one. Is that really necessary? Also “good” is very subjective as we define it, perhaps define it for us.
(July 4, 2011 at 3:21 pm)Rhythm Wrote:Of course I have no problems with it. I contend that a general concept God is logically possible. What attributes would you attribute it and define it that seems illogical? My concept of God is “as advertised” in the Holy Book I read. What was advertised to you?
"There ought to be a term that would designate those who actually follow the teachings of Jesus, since the word 'Christian' has been largely divorced from those teachings, and so polluted by fundamentalists that it has come to connote their polar opposite: intolerance, vindictive hatred, and bigotry." -- Philip Stater, Huffington Post
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
always working on cleaning my windows- me regarding Johari
