RE: Is it true that there is no absolute morality?
March 6, 2017 at 2:17 pm
(This post was last modified: March 6, 2017 at 2:20 pm by Nonpareil.)
(March 5, 2017 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Sure, they're subjective in the sense that they are experienced as ideas by people.
No, benny. That is not what "subjective" means.
(March 5, 2017 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: They're also objective-- they are the outcome of a physical system
No, benny. That is not what "objective" means.
(March 5, 2017 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: "Subject" and "object" are only diametrically opposed in a particular relationship. If I'm looking at a bird, that bird is the object which I subjectively experience; that bird has (I believe) an objective reality-- it simply is what it is. At the same time, the bird is eyeing a juicy worm: it's having a subjective experience about its object, the worm. So is the bird's existence subjective or objective? Given that the bird isn't a philosophical zombie, then it's clearly both.
No, benny. The bird has objective existence, and it is objectively true that it is thinking that the worm looks delicious. The bird's opinion that the worm looks delicious, however, is subjective, because not everyone likes the taste of worms.
(March 5, 2017 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: If I consider the moral ideas of other people, those are objective-- they are what they are, essentially written in stone-- either in the laws of the land or in the behaviors of its citizens. I can (perfectly objectively) say that most people in country X think Y, and that most people in another country think Z. I can tabulate data, dig through texts and do statistical analyses on them, I can do surveys, and so on.
Yes, benny. Because it is objectively true that people have opinions. But those moral ideas are only subjectively true, because whether or not you agree with them depends on whether or not you share the same opinions.
This is not complicated.
(March 6, 2017 at 12:34 am)bennyboy Wrote:(March 5, 2017 at 11:46 pm)TheAtheologian Wrote: There is a difference between subjective and objective truths, as it was already shown here.
Okay, so what is subjectively true, except what it's like to experience.
Value claims. Whether or not they are true depends on whether or not you share the same opinions on what is valuable.
This includes moral systems, as well as things like opinions on which movies are good and which flavor of ice cream is most delicious.
(March 5, 2017 at 10:58 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Is there a moral idea which is subjectively true but not objectively true?
All moral ideas. They are value claims.
"Owl," said Rabbit shortly, "you and I have brains. The others have fluff. If there is any thinking to be done in this Forest - and when I say thinking I mean thinking - you and I must do it."
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
- A. A. Milne, The House at Pooh Corner
