RE: Personification in Greek Myth
March 7, 2017 at 12:42 pm
(This post was last modified: March 7, 2017 at 12:44 pm by Huggy Bear.)
(March 7, 2017 at 11:48 am)Minimalist Wrote: Heyerdahl gets credit for being an experimental archaeologist/historian and for putting his own ass on the line to pursue his theories. All that said, we have plenty of excavations of underwater shipwrecks in the Med which gives a pretty solid view of the types of commercial ships in use. The oldest site identified so far, at Dokos off the Greek coast, dates from 2200 BC towards the end of the Early Bronze Age. The site was covered in amphorae ( ceramic jars used for transport and storage ) as well as stone anchors and other assorted items which survived the ravages of time. 8 centuries later the Uluburun wreck was found off the Turkish coast and the same amphorae laden cargo was noted but this time there were parts of the ship's hull which did survive. Uluburun dates to roughly 1,400 BC or the Late Bronze Age and curiously contains copper ingots which would have been amazingly valuable at the time. (Someone lost a fortune when that ship went down - I hope it was a bastard like Trump!) Nonetheless, the same style of cargo ship was in usage in the Med. for millennia.
BTW, the Uluburun ship, as well as the Khufu Solar Barque from the Old Kingdom and the "jesus boat" from first century BC Israel all used the same mortise and tenon style of planked construction which was clearly a successful model and the ancients saw no need to change it.
But I doubt you would get the same carrying capacity in a reed boat.
This marine archeologist built a replica of an Egyptian craft.
https://phys.org/news/2009-03-maritime-a...urney.html
Quote:Ancient Egyptians may be best known for building pyramids, but internationally renowned maritime archaeologist Cheryl Ward wants the world to know that they were pretty good sailors, too.
She ought to know. Ward, an associate professor of anthropology at The Florida State University, and an international team of archaeologists, shipwrights and sailors recently built a full-scale replica of a 3,800-year-old ship and sailed it on the Red Sea to re-create a voyage to a place the ancient Egyptians called God’s Land, or Punt. Their expedition was financed and filmed as part of a French documentary that will air internationally and on an upcoming episode of “Nova.”
“This project has demonstrated the extraordinary capability of the Egyptians at sea,” Ward said. “Many people, including my fellow archaeologists, think of the Egyptians as tied to the Nile River and lacking in the ability to go to sea. For 25 years, my research has been dedicated to showing the scope of their ability and now, to proving their independently invented approach to ship construction worked magnificently at sea.”
I doubt that it would have looked out of place in harbors of Piraeus, Rhodes, or Tyre over a span of 4,000 years.
This is too rich. You stated:
(March 6, 2017 at 11:35 am)Minimalist Wrote: I don't know where this guy Poe (great name, btw) gets the idea that scholars said the Egyptians did not sail.
From the article you posted:
https://phys.org/news/2009-03-maritime-a...urney.html
Quote:“This project has demonstrated the extraordinary capability of the Egyptians at sea,” Ward said. “Many people, including my fellow archaeologists, think of the Egyptians as tied to the Nile River and lacking in the ability to go to sea.
Quote:The project grew out of the 2006 discovery of the oldest remains of seafaring ships in the world in manmade caves at Wadi Gawasis, on the edge of the Egyptian desert.
Quote:Some had thought the ancient Egyptians did not have the naval technology to travel long distances by sea, but the findings at Wadi Gawasis confirmed that Egyptians sailed a 2,000-mile round trip voyage to Punt, located in what is today Ethiopia or Yemen, Ward said.*emphasis mine*
You do realize that Poe's book was published in 1999 right? The above discovery wasn't made until 2006, which means Poe was not only ahead of his time, but he was clearly correct.
The Article I referred to was also from 1999
http://philipcoppens.com/egyptgreece.html
Quote:Richard Poe in “Black Spark, White Fire” argues that the assumption that the ancient Egyptians did not sail across the Mediterranean Sea is a carefully constructed scientific myth. Evidence that the ancient Egyptians did just that is similar to the volume of evidence that the Phoenicians and Minoans sailed that sea. Scientists willingly accept those cultures’ seafaring capability, yet illogically limit the ancient Egyptians’ capability to do the same.*emphasis mine*
Still, there is powerful evidence to show that the Egyptians did venture beyond the Nile. It is also known that they possessed a large fleet. And Thor Heyerdahl showed that even their “primitive boats” were able to master the currents of the oceans – thus very well equipped to master the much calmer waters of the Mediterranean Sea.
From YOUR OWN article It it clear that prior to 2006 scholars definitely thought that Egypt had no seafaring capability.
To quote the ignorant buffoon Tazzycorn.
(March 6, 2017 at 11:51 am)Tazzycorn Wrote: From his book listings on amazon, Poe seems to be a combination of far-right conspiracy theorist (he's written at least two books proclaiming Hilary Clinton a seekrit-naarzi) and self-help get rich quick scammer. What he most emphatically is not is a historian.*emphasis mine*
Given the tenor of his other books, and this review by an actual expert in the field, I would suggest that the book Huggy is quoting from is a mass of bullshit, plain and simple.
We'll see if he ever gets around to admitting he was wrong, I won't hold my breath...