RE: Debunking Christianity? It's actually quite as simple as asking "why?"
July 9, 2011 at 9:01 pm
(This post was last modified: July 9, 2011 at 9:24 pm by Boris Spacek.)
(July 9, 2011 at 3:34 pm)Rhythm Wrote: Step 1: Provide evidence for the existence of god
Step 2: Wax philosophic about why or how................
You seem to be missing a step.
I was taking for granted that God existed and that we were comfortable with that, seeing as how the Young Atheist asked why God had done things the way he did and not why anyone feels he exists. Purposely I left that step out, as it wasn't the main issue. But I might simply ask you this:
Prove He doesn't exist, and I would be exerting myself as much as you. Well, maybe not quite. But I'll first make sure we're talking about the right God. Prove he doesn't exist given He is omnipotent and yet reserved enough to not wrench our free will about, omnipresent Spirit and yet once manifested in flesh, and everything righteous. There is no length of cosmic exploration sufficient to reveal that He is not there, since he can be everywhere; there is no turn of fate that can make it impossible for him to exist (but the problem of pain is a tricky one to handle, as a Christian). Basically, the easy way for Christians to demonstrate that God exists is to ask if good exists, and whether evil occurences can lead back to good, and since most people believe they do, then God must exist, because for Christians all good things come from God (wherever you think good things come from, there is God; when an atheist finds this source, what does he call it?). Next, since God is order and comfort, one may ask whether this world holds any comfort for us in knowing that our meager lives fulfill a higher purpose. Here is where we may part ways: I have faith that a higher purpose exists to make this transient world where we encounter chaos, arbitrary and unfair laws, and disappointment all part of a more orderly existence. You may not think so. You may have been moved deeply during the course of your life to be cynical of and dissatisfied with this supposed higher order, and this is why Christians really aren't troubled to prove everything: instead they have faith. I have faith in higher order of awe-inspiring purpose that our insignificant (by cosmological standards) lives fulfill; I have faith in there being a source of righteousness. Whether or not it's proved doesn't bother me, because we are talking about concepts now aren't we? Order and love? If I'm the sole person with these concepts, but elsewhere people insist they don't have them, they still exist. That I have faith in the Christian God proves His existence.
Now there may be a Texan Corn-Dog God whom my enemies invoke to smite me with flaming Pogo Sticks for my blasphemy, and you would have a much better chance disproving him than the Christian God (my God; some Christians still think God is all about 'goin upside da head'). It's just that I ask for comfortable abstraction from my God, and they ask for ketchupy revenge that makes them so much more vulnerable. Daniel did a lot of this. Read Daniel. There's a cool monster scene.
(July 9, 2011 at 4:28 pm)Epimethean Wrote: And WTF regarding not having questioned your god sacrificing his offspring?
Look, it's not as though God said, "don't think, just slay your only son!" to...uh, himself. The Hebrew God did that to Abraham for all sorts of reasons, but this had a better reason. The gospels make clear that Jesus accepts his foretold death (which he otherwise could have avoided) both as necessary for God's plan of ultimately humbling himself to work (among other things on the same bill) and that he does so fearfull of the torment to follow. What was up God's sleeve? Well, by dying Jesus could descend to Hell, give Satan a wicked thrashing, and then bust out those previously barred from Heaven. I know, I know. The rules say, once you've chosen life everlasting without God, you can't go back on it, but at least two people are above the law: Steven Segal and the Son of God. As well, Jesus' sacrifice was important for maintaining the relevancy of the Jewish Passover, which celebrates the sacrifice of the Passover Lamb. Well, guess what. Jesus is the new lamb in town. This and a multitude of other prophetic scriptures were fulfilled when Jesus died, mostly by details of his torture and humiliation by Roman guards and such.
I understood that. What I had failed to question until perhaps a year ago is what the gap between the Fall and the Passion were necessary for. I guess the obvious answer is, "to give time for there to be prophetic writings to be fulfilled, duh!!!" Probably so obvious and everyday that I forgot it shortly after catechism. Anyway, didn't want to leave it sounding like I was a half-tard.