(April 2, 2017 at 1:57 pm)Brian37 Wrote:(April 2, 2017 at 1:30 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1st of all a book from God like any book can illuminate the truth but never itself justify an action. It can reveal actions that are justified and why we ought to do them, but it can never be used to justify evil.
If it had this evil, than it would be reason to reject it as comprehensively all from God, but it would never justify evil.
In the case of Quran, reason comes before "scriptures" attributed to God, and is what illuminates the holy books and will make you know it is true.
I know you believe scriptures never justify evil but I thought it's necessary to make clear holy books never justify behaviour unless it manifests and reminds of beauty of it, giving it context, and manifesting its goodness.
If it had no proofs of being from God, it would be contradictory in nature with many contradictions with regards to guidance and should be rejected as well simply based on the various verses condemning following without proof or clinging to leadership without proof which would be expected in any guidance from God!
Mystic, again, I am being fair to you. The Koran suffers the same thing the Christian Bible and Jewish OT suffer from. LOGIC.
Even if I suddenly said "that makes sense", here is the problem with all those books of Abraham.
Efficiency.
If one is to claim your God is all powerful be it Allah or Yahweh or Jesus, then why if your dad wants everyone on the same page, would you go out of your way to allow your kids to fight over your instructions?
Just your umbrella label alone "Islam" as Sunnis and Shiites needlessly murder each other over the same Koran because nobody can agree on how that "instruction manual" should be interpreted.
It is also the same problem the Bible has. You won't get a Trump voting evangelical Baptist to agree with an Obama voting Baptist. But those Christians still share the same "instruction manual".
I'd love to see the Middle East live in peace. I would love to see Sunnis and Shiites get along. I would love it even more if Jews and Muslims would get along.
There are even divisions between Jews in Israel. They also have their far right conservative hyper nationalists whom I don't like. There are liberal Jews in Israel who don't agree with their far right.
But this is the problem EVERY religion suffers from. Even under the same holy writing you have sub sects that don't agree as to who got the interpretation of the writing correct. You wont even find 100% agreement among Buddhist. A Tibet Buddhist will not agree with a Chinese Buddhist, and a Chinese Buddhist wont agree with a Japanese Shinto Buddhist.
If you truly care about your fellow human and you want less violence and war like I do, you really need to understand this.
You are essentially saying because people differ with the truth, God would not manifest a book that manifests the truth in the best way and appointed leaders as interpreters? I don't understand your argument.
People are disputing anyways. You don't even believe in God, so this goes well with what you see, that people dispute over the truth and people follow all sorts of things out of their caprice and not knowledge or sincerity to the truth.
Why would God not attempt to guide humanity then? Why wouln't there be a book of guidance that cannot be misinterpreted but by rejecting some parts over other parts and purposely ignoring what itself clarifies? Why would he not appointed interprets who see it in the best manner and interpret all correctly? Why would he not give us leadership so we can be at the mercy at misguiding leadership?
I am trying to see what you are trying to argue. People disputing and differing over the truth and holy books, to me, just emphasizes the need of a leader from God, a Captain that will guide the just city on the course it is meant to be driven at where all the parts will come together due to the Captain and navigate them the proper way as Socrates argued.
