RE: General statement to theists who read this.
April 9, 2017 at 5:34 pm
(This post was last modified: April 9, 2017 at 5:39 pm by AceBoogie.)
The problem is many theists unwillingness to compromise.
Maybe we don't make it clear how much we compromise with them. Theists seem to be completely unwilling to agree with us on even the most basic of concepts... i.e. the definition of atheism. They are as convinced that we're godless sinners as we are that their stories and fairy tales simply don't make sense. I feel like things are getting better as times go on, but at the end of the day your average theist would rather avoid the argument than actually sit down and discuss the facts. These types aren't much better than those that choose to join this forum to preach to us about how god is within us all and that we need to "accept reality" and "wake up."
A denial of basic science, logic and reason is not something I'm willing to compromise with. And while I hope theists will treat me as an individual, as you say, I doubt many of them will. They seem to fail to understand that we are all people who have come to, basically, the same conclusion (at least about god, or a lack thereof) using our own rationale and logic. Unlike many theists who simply accept the claims made by the Bible because they were taught to as children... they treat as us if we operate by the same hive minded mentality that many Christians, Muslims and Jews do... and that is simply not true.
It's hard for me to take any theist seriously when they all use the same tired, old arguments purported by the same apologists that have been around for years and years now. The thing is, these stories, for whatever reason, make sense to the people who call themselves Christians. So maybe it is in our best interest to try and understand that the best we can, but that doesn't mean we should concede to anything that doesn't stand up to the scientific method, since we've established that so far, that's the most important tool we have for understanding the world around us.
There is a divide here and no one is really willing to take that first step because I'm not sure that any of us realize what taking that first step entails.
edit: To theists who read this post
Please understand that I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who truly are uninformed, unintelligent people. Maybe there are plenty of people who reject god as a way of rebellion against their parents, their family or society in general. But I would argue that most of us have each come to understand, through careful study and self examination, that we simply don't buy into your story. We didn't all get together and decide to "fight religion" or something. We all came to the same conclusion as individuals, which, quite honestly, makes our position a bit more believable, in my opinion. Most of us have read your Bible, have listened to your stories and have considered your side... and all we're saying is, "Yea, that doesn't make any sense to us."
Until any of you theists out there are willing to compromise a bit, none of this is ever going anywhere.
Maybe we don't make it clear how much we compromise with them. Theists seem to be completely unwilling to agree with us on even the most basic of concepts... i.e. the definition of atheism. They are as convinced that we're godless sinners as we are that their stories and fairy tales simply don't make sense. I feel like things are getting better as times go on, but at the end of the day your average theist would rather avoid the argument than actually sit down and discuss the facts. These types aren't much better than those that choose to join this forum to preach to us about how god is within us all and that we need to "accept reality" and "wake up."
A denial of basic science, logic and reason is not something I'm willing to compromise with. And while I hope theists will treat me as an individual, as you say, I doubt many of them will. They seem to fail to understand that we are all people who have come to, basically, the same conclusion (at least about god, or a lack thereof) using our own rationale and logic. Unlike many theists who simply accept the claims made by the Bible because they were taught to as children... they treat as us if we operate by the same hive minded mentality that many Christians, Muslims and Jews do... and that is simply not true.
It's hard for me to take any theist seriously when they all use the same tired, old arguments purported by the same apologists that have been around for years and years now. The thing is, these stories, for whatever reason, make sense to the people who call themselves Christians. So maybe it is in our best interest to try and understand that the best we can, but that doesn't mean we should concede to anything that doesn't stand up to the scientific method, since we've established that so far, that's the most important tool we have for understanding the world around us.
There is a divide here and no one is really willing to take that first step because I'm not sure that any of us realize what taking that first step entails.
edit: To theists who read this post
Please understand that I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who truly are uninformed, unintelligent people. Maybe there are plenty of people who reject god as a way of rebellion against their parents, their family or society in general. But I would argue that most of us have each come to understand, through careful study and self examination, that we simply don't buy into your story. We didn't all get together and decide to "fight religion" or something. We all came to the same conclusion as individuals, which, quite honestly, makes our position a bit more believable, in my opinion. Most of us have read your Bible, have listened to your stories and have considered your side... and all we're saying is, "Yea, that doesn't make any sense to us."
Until any of you theists out there are willing to compromise a bit, none of this is ever going anywhere.
“Love is the only bow on Life’s dark cloud. It is the morning and the evening star. It shines upon the babe, and sheds its radiance on the quiet tomb. It is the mother of art, inspirer of poet, patriot and philosopher.
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
It is the air and light of every heart – builder of every home, kindler of every fire on every hearth. It was the first to dream of immortality. It fills the world with melody – for music is the voice of love.
Love is the magician, the enchanter, that changes worthless things to Joy, and makes royal kings and queens of common clay. It is the perfume of that wondrous flower, the heart, and without that sacred passion, that divine swoon, we are less than beasts; but with it, earth is heaven, and we are gods.” - Robert. G. Ingersoll
