(April 9, 2017 at 5:34 pm)AceBoogie Wrote: The problem is many theists unwillingness to compromise.
Maybe we don't make it clear how much we compromise with them. Theists seem to be completely unwilling to agree with us on even the most basic of concepts... i.e. the definition of atheism. They are as convinced that we're godless sinners as we are that their stories and fairy tales simply don't make sense. I feel like things are getting better as times go on, but at the end of the day your average theist would rather avoid the argument than actually sit down and discuss the facts. These types aren't much better than those that choose to join this forum to preach to us about how god is within us all and that we need to "accept reality" and "wake up."
A denial of basic science, logic and reason is not something I'm willing to compromise with. And while I hope theists will treat me as an individual, as you say, I doubt many of them will. They seem to fail to understand that we are all people who have come to, basically, the same conclusion (at least about god, or a lack thereof) using our own rationale and logic. Unlike many theists who simply accept the claims made by the Bible because they were taught to as children... they treat as us if we operate by the same hive minded mentality that many Christians, Muslims and Jews do... and that is simply not true.
It's hard for me to take any theist seriously when they all use the same tired, old arguments purported by the same apologists that have been around for years and years now. The thing is, these stories, for whatever reason, make sense to the people who call themselves Christians. So maybe it is in our best interest to try and understand that the best we can, but that doesn't mean we should concede to anything that doesn't stand up to the scientific method, since we've established that so far, that's the most important tool we have for understanding the world around us.
There is a divide here and no one is really willing to take that first step because I'm not sure that any of us realize what taking that first step entails.
edit: To theists who read this post
Please understand that I'm sure there are plenty of atheists who truly are uninformed, unintelligent people. Maybe there are plenty of people who reject god as a way of rebellion against their parents, their family or society in general. But I would argue that most of us have each come to understand, through careful study and self examination, that we simply don't buy into your story. We didn't all get together and decide to "fight religion" or something. We all came to the same conclusion as individuals, which, quite honestly, makes our position a bit more believable, in my opinion. Most of us have read your Bible, have listened to your stories and have considered your side... and all we're saying is, "Yea, that doesn't make any sense to us."
Until any of you theists out there are willing to compromise a bit, none of this is ever going anywhere.
"atheist" means "off", nothing more. Outside that we don't agree on all things all the time. And even we define ourselves with sub set words like "Freethinker" "Humanist" and "Brites". Nonsense to me. Those are also attempts to define oneself as having a set of special views. Our species ability to be cruel or compassionate is in our evolution, not the labels we assign ourselves. Not even the word "atheist" has any magic power to make an individual only do good or only do bad.
Our species has a horrible tendency to use "otherism" to justify the stigmatizing of those outside our social norms. Theism teaches tribalism and while it does create groups which creates social order and cooperation, it far too often more than not comes at the expense of pitting one group against another.
I don't expect a utopia where theism will suddenly grow up. I also dont ever see a perfect atheist world either. But theism only deserves legal protection because humans deserve rights. The claims they make however, should never get blind protection never to be questioned.
