Trans people & sports

[Shell B]

That should probably be a pro, not a con.  They're not my handpicked sources.  In fact, they're the handpicked sources of my positions direct opposition.  That's as sympathetic as it gets to the other guy.  

But you keep mentioning these conclusive studies. I was hoping you had them.

Those studies did...actually, show that?

Not quite. While one did say it was justifiable to have M-F compete with F, there is much more than just the summary. There is evidence that M-F retain some of the advantageous muscle mass when compared to not-transitioned F-M (which is an element that I think limits the study), but that the overlap between males and females is already large, so fuck it, essentially. So, what they're basically saying, to my mind, is that, yes, the most elite M-F are going to have more muscle mass than the most elite F, but we think the muscle mass overlap renders any limits we make arbitrary, so go for it.

They simply couldn't rule out that there may be unknown advantages either below the threshold of detection..or, as the study borrows - the whole is not just the sum of the parts.  There may be a subtle but effective cumulative advantage.  That's a commitment to integrity, granted..but it's not -support- for "the other side".  "The other side" is wrong about those advantages even if they -do- exist.  That much was lain out plainly in those sources.

It looked like they were saying there is a residual increased muscle mass, but they're not really sure if it's enough to worry about. However, they did also say it seems justified that F compete with M-F, so they definitely support your side, but yield that it's not cut and dry. If you wanted a more tightly specified overlap in muscle mass, it would become unjustifiable, as they said.

OFC I don't think that your an icky phobe.  I already said, I think that you're hung on being on the fence for no good reason.

My reason is that I feel like it can make for a hearty debate. That seems a plenty good enough reason, this being a discussion forum and not a real-life decision-making panel. I'm debating for the sake of debate. There can be no other reason. If people are really here trying to make a difference, I feel bad for them, honestly. This isn't the place for it.

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In elaboration, in defense of the IOC's ruling, btw...not -exactly related to this thread-.  The way they're heading, their regs are moving toward a basis in hormone levels, anatomy..testable biological metrics which might, in absolute fairness, match some men up to women, and some women to men..This, arguably, would be a better way to ensure that competitors are all peers on a level field than whether or not someone happens to be swinging Richard.

I love that concept.