(April 23, 2017 at 3:06 pm)emjay Wrote:(April 23, 2017 at 2:15 pm)Brian37 Wrote: Nobody is trying to bait anyone.
I am sorry it bothers you that I am including all religions in this thread. I would say the opposite. I would say that it is because everyone is stuck in their own corners and don't compare and dig in their heals, as much as I love the empathy of my fellow liberals, this reaction is exactly what allows the far right to cause the worst of our species divisions.
"Live and let live" is not an argument, of course we don't need more global divisions or violence. Nobody should want that. But no, sorry, if our species never questioned social norms we would not have progressed.
This isn't a rights issue one bit so please don't try to imply that or try to hide behind it.
I am quite sure Catholic Lady doesn't want more hate and violence.
I am quite sure that Atlas or MK don't want that either.
I like you too, and I am sure you don't want that either.
This is STRICTLY about logic and facts and reason, and trying to get people to focus that our personal beliefs cannot replace a neutral setting which has produced our modern understanding of the world through neutral scientific method.
"Why you feel the need" to hold one club over another is precisely why the more closed societies and more bigoted violent sects in the world get away with hiding behind well intended liberals. This thread is needed and the conversation is needed. It isn't a call to end religion or get people to fight each other. It is to get more to think objectively.
Okay, I'll bite... for a while.
a) I am not a Buddhist.
b) I only trust science
c) I only trust Buddhist teachings where they agree with science. For instance, mindfulness plays a big part in many psychological therapies these days, especially in the realms of anger management. My sister is a psychologist and she uses mindfulness extensively in her work.
So can we at least get that out the way? So I am not representative of any club or religion. If Jesus had anything to say about psychology, and it made sense in line with science, I might take that advice on board too, but that wouldn't make me a Christian. So what I'm saying is I am not exclusively drawn to Buddhist teachings... I do not think it is right and everything else is wrong, I'm only drawn to teachings that make good psychological sense and agree with science.
I accept you when you say you are not a Buddhist. Not my point. You still like to think science points to some of the Buddhist teachings. So what.
If you stop focusing on yourself and spend some time looking at other religion's arguments you will see they also accept some science but only up and until it points away from their club/writings.
Sam Harris is also not a Buddhist. He also likes using his neurology degree to point to "some" of the Buddhist teachings. Problem is Ben Carson, a Christian, also has a neurology degree, but would claim that because the body is so complex that makes his bible the one true book. I am also sure Ben Carson would cherry pick that book and ignore it when science doesn't match his book and that is what cherry picking does.
"Neurology" is neutral, not "Neurology points to Buddhism" not "Neurology points to the bible".
You are not a Buddhist but still not my point.
If your point is that Buddhism teaches you to be kind and science points to empathy so therefor "some" of the Buddhist teachings are correct. Well again, you still have other individuals of other positions that would claim the same things even if secular, and point to other writings of other clubs.
There are scientists with degrees in every nation and they also accept some science too, and ignore the other fantastic claims and or rituals that don't match science.
You can also find "secular Jews", those are people who like the rituals but dont believe in a real god. They would also use science to point to their Jewish history.
I think you like the idea of empathy and compassion and the reduction of suffering, and that is good. I am simply saying that empathetic desire, which is the good side of our species, isn't explained by old religions, but modern things like psychology, psychiatry and neurology.
We already know that other species also display acts of empathy and sharing, and that tells me that our behaviors are not coming out of any religion or any "teaching" but are because of our natural evolution.
