Can prayer change God's perfect plan?

[Aroura]

You are still just explaining how he sees it, not how that allows you to have choice.  We have already all agreed he sees it all for the sake of this argument.  How or where does not matter.  Saying that he sees the result of our choices does not explain how that makes those choices "Free".

(I forgot to address your example.  Yes, if I see you pick pepperoni pizza, that shows I know what you will do.  That does not demonstrate that you had the FREE CHOICE to choose cheese!  Doing a thing and/or knowing someone will do a thing in no way demonstrates that they had the free will to chose to do the other thing, and actually tacitly demonstrates the opposite.)

Hm? I'm not sure I follow. The scenario is that both cheese and pepperoni are available, and you see me freely choosing cheese, therefore you know I chose cheese by my own free will.

Answer this question:  Can you chose to do a thing that has not been seen (forseen, or past seen, or seen all at once, whatever you like).?  Can you chose to do a thing that god does not already know you will do? Yes or no. Just answer this and then we can move on.

I can choose whatever I want. And I do. The thing is, since God can see all of time, He is already seeing me making my choices, whatever they are.

First, you still have not answered this simple yes or no question though you act as if you have. I'll try and phrase it differently. If god has seen you chose option a, is it ever at any point possible for you to chose option b? Yes or no.

As to your pizza analogy, this in no way demonstrates that you have freely chosen anything. If a rock is balanced atop a hill, and it seems to an observer that it might roll down either the north or south slope, when it finally rolls down the north slope, did it chose that of its own free will? Or did forces too small too see or too difficult to measure by eye alone cause it to go north?

Now, demonstrate to me that you posses more free will than that rock, and didn't eat cheese pizza because of a similar set of hard to identify at first glance causes, like hating pepperoni, menstruating, having recently eaten spicy food and desiring bland, having a sore butt from a recent hard poop, the chemicals in the water you recently drank making salty food less appealing, etc etc etc.

You presuppose that your free will exists and so think it is obvious in your example, but it simply isn't. You cannot actually demonstrate it's existence at all! Except through feelings and personal experiences of course, and I'm sure by now you know that does not count as evidence.

No one can demonstrate free will, so far. If you can, get ready for your Nobel prize in physics!