RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan?
May 17, 2017 at 4:58 pm
(This post was last modified: May 17, 2017 at 5:01 pm by WinterHold.)
(May 17, 2017 at 10:54 am)Khemikal Wrote: Yes, his story is there in the quran, and apart from just being a story, even the story doesn't read as you have characterized it.......did you read the story...or?
Ibrahim had a dream, and compelled by that dream he set out to commit the unspeakable in the name of god, by utter submission to it's will, as the first muslim. Stop me when any of this rings a bell?
Abraham -or Ibrahim in Arabic- had the dream later on.
The story in the Quran foretell a very different course of events:
Quote:Sura 6, Page 137, The Quran:
( 74 ) And when Abraham said to his father Azar, "Do you take idols as deities? Indeed, I see you and your people to be in manifest error."
( 75 ) And thus did We show Abraham the realm of the heavens and the earth that he would be among the certain
( 76 ) So when the night covered him [with darkness], he saw a star. He said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "I like not those that disappear."
( 77 ) And when he saw the moon rising, he said, "This is my lord." But when it set, he said, "Unless my Lord guides me, I will surely be among the people gone astray."
( 78 ) And when he saw the sun rising, he said, "This is my lord; this is greater." But when it set, he said, "O my people, indeed I am free from what you associate with Allah.
( 79 ) Indeed, I have turned my face toward He who created the heavens and the earth, inclining toward truth, and I am not of those who associate others with Allah."
The story ends with his immigration after his people attempting to burn him for insulting their faith idols.
The dream came later, these events take place in Abraham's youth when he was probably a teenager.
Cyberman
(5 hours ago)AtlasS33 Wrote: Wrote:Didn't Abraham observe, thought about interesting questions... before believing ?
Quote:Not even slightly. God was all like "Hey Abes, kill your son for me thx" and Abraham was like "K", then it was "Just trollin lol" and Abraham was all "Omg sick burn lololol!!!!! I was totes gonn do it tho" and God was all "Yeah bout dat we gots to talk facetime me" and Isaac was all up in that shit and was like "WTF d00d? Liike SRSLY??!!!???" and that's where the trouble started.
No. The begening in the Quran has nothing to do with dreams or even a vision:
Quote:Sura 21, Page 327 & 326, The Quran:
It never begins with a dream in the Quran; it begins with:
1-Observation to the skies
2-Questioning of stone worshiping
3-A conclusion that led the young man defy and face his whole community including his father, and publicly shaming the religion of his forefathers.
Tazzycorn
(5 hours ago)AtlasS33 Wrote: Wrote:Didn't Abraham observe, thought about interesting questions... before believing ?
Quote:No Abram saw lots of stuff he didn't understand, got puzzled momentarily, and then went "oh well, fuck it, I'll blame yhwh". He never went near the scientific method.
He observed and concluded that a design and a pattern are so great to be appointed as a property of mere stones and statues.
And he had the guts to say "no" to a whole heathen tribe that burn people.