RE: Consciousness Trilemma
May 30, 2017 at 6:45 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2017 at 6:55 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
(May 30, 2017 at 6:29 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Maybe the experience of qualia itself IS the element, then.An element that cannot be found. An element that good reasons™ suggest to us cannot exist, and an element that is not required.
Quote:That's a pretty big can of worms. I could at this moment be reliving my life on my death's bed, or I could be God imagining an unfolding drama that exists nowhere in my mind. Time is relative, but if you are going to define a particular moment as "now," it would have to be the sense of awareness itself.-which would be unfortunate, since the sense of awareness can't possibly be happening "now".....because, at the very least, information processing takes time. It could -only- have happened "then", unless "now", like consciousness, to us..is just a post processing narrative. Eliminative materialists have no problem with post processing narratives as-consciousness. That;s what many of them think the perception of now, and seeming in the now, is. A compelling story about a then, chock full of error, chock full of illusion.
Quote:I'm not talking about seeming of content. I'm talking about the seeming of coordination.Does seeming seem coordinated, or does seeming seem present? It can be one, and not the other. I also think that seeming is coordinated. So do eliminative materialists, sort of. Coordinated by what, however? The seeming singular entity of consciousness that exists in the present moment, or the actual process which is distributed throughout space and time?
(I'll go back and check, but I don't make any bones about edits, lol..you know that)
(May 30, 2017 at 6:03 pm)bennyboy Wrote: Even an illusion needs a host, since an illusion is a malformed perception. Tell me, who/what is experiencing the illusion? Does the illusion experience the illusion? This starts to sounds like philosophical Buddhism or Hinduism, and very much not like a material monist view of mind.People sometimes get things somewhat right for the wrong reasons. Other times, people interpret a bad guess as something it isn't, likening it to good research only because it conforms to what they count and they don't mind much what is omitted.
"The ancients got it right" is an industry. They didn't...but people keep thinking they did, or that something we know now sounds alot like something they thought then.
Eliminative materialists -do- think that the illusion has a host, as it were.. They are, after all, still materialists, still looking to explain experience by reference to the brain.
Quote:I'm willing to take it as brute fact that mind is real.So are eliminative materialists. After all...that's what they're trying to explain.
There you go. Pretty much all I had to add.
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