RE: Consciousness Trilemma
May 30, 2017 at 8:38 pm
(This post was last modified: May 30, 2017 at 8:47 pm by The Grand Nudger.)
I think that you're pretty much falling headfirst into the same pit that Ham did, Benny.
Your consciousness as described, in the view of eliminative materialists, does not and cannot exist. That they seek to explain consciousness strongly suggests that they think that -consciousness- exists. Dennet, for example, in this thread, quoted ala "ofc consciousness exists, it;s just not what you think it is". What is there, in any of this, to be unclear about?
If happening means now, then your consciousness is not happening. It happened. It still -seems- like it's happening though, doesn't it? This is one of the illusions to which eliminativists refer.
Post processing by a brain, they're materialists, that's the mechanism of consciousness they refer to. Post processing all the time, they're materialists, they seek to explain consciousness in spacetime. Nevertheless, they maintain, and nuerology confirms (hell..positively basic physics confirms), that this post processing is a "happened" sort of thing, not a presently happening thing...and that the mechanism is not as it presents itself to us. SAeeming, itself, seems to be a way that it is not, and cannot be. They call that an illusion, pretty straightforward, right?
Eliminative materialists -don't- call the brute facts of consciousness an illusion, they call some descriptions of those brute facts illusory...such as the feeling of feeling in the now, the feeling of being a singular entity in the now, in there, etc. They propose, for example..that you didn;t actually feel that way at all -in the sense of a present happening, a present seeming discrete in space and time-, that you tell yourself a compelling story about feeling that way, then...regardless of whether or not you did, regardless of whether or not there was a then, and regardless of whether or not there is a "you" as-such. That "you"...to "them", is a center of narrative focus, not a mental state, not a discrete process or structure in the brain.
Your consciousness as described, in the view of eliminative materialists, does not and cannot exist. That they seek to explain consciousness strongly suggests that they think that -consciousness- exists. Dennet, for example, in this thread, quoted ala "ofc consciousness exists, it;s just not what you think it is". What is there, in any of this, to be unclear about?
If happening means now, then your consciousness is not happening. It happened. It still -seems- like it's happening though, doesn't it? This is one of the illusions to which eliminativists refer.
Post processing by a brain, they're materialists, that's the mechanism of consciousness they refer to. Post processing all the time, they're materialists, they seek to explain consciousness in spacetime. Nevertheless, they maintain, and nuerology confirms (hell..positively basic physics confirms), that this post processing is a "happened" sort of thing, not a presently happening thing...and that the mechanism is not as it presents itself to us. SAeeming, itself, seems to be a way that it is not, and cannot be. They call that an illusion, pretty straightforward, right?
Eliminative materialists -don't- call the brute facts of consciousness an illusion, they call some descriptions of those brute facts illusory...such as the feeling of feeling in the now, the feeling of being a singular entity in the now, in there, etc. They propose, for example..that you didn;t actually feel that way at all -in the sense of a present happening, a present seeming discrete in space and time-, that you tell yourself a compelling story about feeling that way, then...regardless of whether or not you did, regardless of whether or not there was a then, and regardless of whether or not there is a "you" as-such. That "you"...to "them", is a center of narrative focus, not a mental state, not a discrete process or structure in the brain.
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