Consciousness Trilemma

[pocaracas]

Then consciousness doesn't exist, since there is no such happening, only the happened, Benny.

That's an utterly incoherent statement. You can't have a 'was happening' or a 'will be happening' without a 'happening'.

You make logical contradictions and simply deny that you're making them.

We KNOW consciousness exists. To be aware of the nonexistence of consciousness is to be aware i.e. conscious.  Therefore it's not nonexistent it's existent! You are making a self-defeating argument. You make such ridiculously contradictory statements. You can't experience pain or suffering or happiness without consciousness. We KNOW consciousness exists. And to call it an existent illusion is to say that it seems to be one way but is in fact another way... but the seeming itself is consciousness so that's just another illogical conclusion.

As I have repeatedly spelled out for your stupid fucking brain: The fact that what we are conscious of is something that was produced by unsonscious areas of our brain a moment before we experienced it consciously does not make conscious experience itself when we experience it an illusion.

I was just watching a talk where Dennett compared the so-called 'illusion of consciousness' to what he calls the 'user illusion' on a computer screen... the fact that what we see on the screen seems to be how the comptuer works when in reality that's not what's going on in the computer at all. Yes but what's on the screen is not a fucking illusion. It's really there and your eyes are really seeing it. This is analogous to the stupid fucking error he makes with consciousness. It doesn't matter if what's going on in the brain in unconscious areas that lead to your consciousness is completely different to how you experience it consciously... that doesn't make your conscious experience an illusion.

For fuck's sake. Dennett talks about you thinking you are conscious of things you're not really conscious of... but the thinking you're conscious in itself is a state of consciousness. This is a profound confusion on his part.  He says it only 'seems' that you are conscious. Well, guess what, when you seem to be conscious of something that itself is the experience of consciousness that we call consciousness. The seeming is the being. There's no fucking illusion. Not knowing how consciousness is produced or the delay of consciousness doesn't fucking make the experience an illusion.

An experiential illusion can only be applied to something that is experienced on the inside that in the outside isn't happening... but when we're talking about consciousness we're only talking about what's happening on the inside. And what seems to be happening to you is what seems to be happening to you. That's just a fucking tautology.

So much stupid.

So much vitriol, Hammy... calm down.

I admit I mostly skimmed all of your and Khem's posts, but I noticed this bit about what is perceived doesn't happen simultaneous with the actual world events.
This reminded me of the concept of Real-Time Control... essentially, to act fast enough so that the system doesn't change from when it was sensed to the time of acting upon it.

So, as I see it, the time it takes for our brains to process information and make a conscious decision is, for the most part, irrelevant. We operate in Real-Time.
Our present is a present with a small and mostly irrelevant delay.