Sin and the Blame Game

[Huggy Bear]

We use the example of a 2 year old because, if the Eden story was taken literally, then Adam and Even had no concept of good and evil/right and wrong at that point. They had no concept of death either, so saying "you'll die if you do this" is meaningless. A 16 year old has grown, and learned right from wrong, by that time, and likely understands what death is.

First of all Adam was hanging out at a minimum of around 1000 years before Eve was even created or close to 2000 years max .. are you going to sit here and say that 16 years trumps 1000?

Also they clearly knew right from wrong seeing how they hid from God, why would you hide if you didn't know you did anything wrong?

That "simple" way you mean is what? Jesus dying? Actually it's kind of convoluted, came long after he tried and failed other ways to solve the problem, and shows he still doesn't know how to solve an issue without killing someone. Jahova/Yahweh never learned, or grew, from his experience, so why should we worship it?

The only way that you need be concerned about is to repent and be baptized.

Just like Naaman in the Old Testament seeking a cure for leprosy was told to go dip himself 7 times in the Jordan river, but those instructions seemed ridiculous, because in his mind, there were better rivers to utilize than the Jordan.

Why are you so concerned with how God chose to remit sin? Just be content that there is a simple way for your sin to be remitted.

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Except that God provided a rather simple way in which one doesn't have to bear the responsibility of their shortcomings, so there is really no excuse.

But you've missed my point.  Our shortcomings are god's responsibility, not ours.  They are only shortcomings to HIM, in the sense that they fall short of his imagined ideal for us.  Why would we need to atone for his inability to execute the ideal?

That "imagined ideal" you speak of is love. Did not Jesus state that the greatest commandments were to love God with all your heart, and to love thy neighbor as thyself? Did he also not state that ALL the law and prophets hang on those two commandments?

If everyone loved God and loved their neighbor as themselves, that would cure 100% of the worlds problems. War wouldn't exist, poverty wouldn't exist, prisons wouldn't exist, the list goes on.

What has God to do with your ability to love?

The example you gave of your 2 year old is way off base, since a 2 year old isn't a free moral agent.


But not any less of a free moral agent than Adam and Eve, so I think it's a fair analogy.  God knew A&E would screw it up, just like I know my kid is going to take that cookie.

Of course God knew Adam and Eve would mess up, if he didn't then he wouldn't be God, but before God created Adam and Eve he was a savior, hence why the scriptures state that the lamb was slain before the foundations of the world.

God is eternal and doesn't change, in God was certain attributes one of which was Father, you can't be a father with no children, hence Adam and Eve. Another attribute was savior, you can't be a savior without something to save. Another attribute was healer, you can't be a healer without sickness... light cannot exist without darkness.

Those things had to come into existence for Gods attributes to become manifest, and Eve was the catalyst for that, and she of her own free will caused the fall.