RE: Origin of Matter
June 6, 2017 at 10:17 am
(This post was last modified: June 6, 2017 at 4:40 pm by Mister Agenda.)
RedSox Wrote:downbeatplumb Wrote:What I said was that whatever the cause it would be natural.
No supernatural or paranormal thing has ever been found to actually be real when properly investigated.
Feel free to prove me wrong, but I require properly scientifically verified evidence not some vague argument.
Thanks, downbeat. I hear ya on whatever the origin of matter being natural. Can you expand on that given the two questions here:
(1) Wouldn’t matter being the origin violate the theory that matter can neither be created nor destroyed in a closed system… and only transferred across open systems? Am I incorrectly understanding that theory... I may very well be.
(2) Additionally, if matter is the origin of matter then what is the origin of the earliest matter that ever existed… would it be infinite? Not talking about the universe or planets here, just matter itself.
Welcome RedSox. If we seem a little touchy, it's because many of your predecessors have been trolls, but that's not the vibe I'm picking up from you so far.
Matter and energy only transforming and never being created or destroyed is a principle that applies within the cosmos and does not necessarily apply to the cosmos. An H2O molecule is not 'wet' but enough of them together at the right temperature are, the whole of a puddle of water has properties that the molecules it is composed of do not.
Since time began with the initial expansion, matter and energy have existed as long as time, that is, they've always existed. What was 'before' the initial expansion is pretty mysterious, including whether it makes sense to say 'before' an event that includes the beginning of time. There are many plausible natural explanations that fit the evidence, fit the known physics, and have math that works; but a shortage of ways to test them.
There don't seem to be any actual infinities within the cosmos, so no reason to think the origin of matter is something actually infinite. Some takes on quantum foam could be reasonably described as such, though...in my opinion, QF could share all the attributes ascribed to a bare minimum creator deity except consciousness, intent, ability to think, and personhood. But QF isn't necessarily the correct origin.
You've also asked about the origin of positive energy. It appears that there's considerable leeway for localized 'non-zero-ness' as long as the total is zero. As Alex K pointed out, it looks like the net energy of the cosmos may be zero...if it's not, it's very close to it. 0=6+3-12+2-5+6=0. If the laws of the cosmos have a main requirement of the total sum of energy not being more or less than zero, it appears to be within budget.
And a pro-tip: Someone not knowing the answer to a question does not affect the probability that another answer is correct in the slightest. All explanations must stand or fall on their own. Using someone else's lack of answers to prop up another answer is the logical fallacy known as an Argument from Ignorance. If no one has an explanation that stands up to careful scrutiny, the only honest answer is 'We don't know.'
I'm not anti-Christian. I'm anti-stupid.