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Is atheism self-contradictory ?
#34
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ?
(June 24, 2017 at 10:45 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: We've (the forum, note it is more than just I) discussed all of those arguments that you site and I have found them lacking. You might try a search here in the forum for past threads that address them. And yes, if not absurd, I find them flawed. However, if you'd like to discuss them yet again and add your own perspective feel free. You might want to start individual threads for each. 

If god exists it would not need assumptions of logic, debate or argument. This simply indicates that god(s) was made by man for mans own purposes. 

You found them lacking in what sense ? I'll take the cosmological argument as an example, which is based on two premises :

(1) Whatever begins to exist has a cause.
(2) The Universe began to exist.

To refute the argument you need to reject one of its premises. The relationship between causes and effects is fundamental to all natural science. The second premise is based on the empirical observation that our universe is expanding. So what am I missing ? 

And if all kinds of proofs are lacking from your point of view ? What kind of proof do you require in order to accept that a divine entity exists ?

(June 24, 2017 at 10:45 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'll trust my brain because it's just that, my brain. I'm sorry that you think you have an untrustworthy monkey brain. 

Ad hom.


(June 24, 2017 at 10:45 pm)mh.brewer Wrote: I'm sure that your brain didn't come up with the arguments that you site but your brain has made the determination to accept or discard them.  Plus you indicate that "The Qur'an repeatedly challenges everyone who reads it to come up with his own impressive Arabic book". How are you able to do that if you can't trust your own brain? Are you suggesting that I trust a god(s) brain? That a god actually wrote your book?

You didn't answer my question, because now you're talking about my brain. I assume that a divine entity created the human brain, simply because this assumption is essential, just as any kind of a priori knowledge or axiom of two-valued logic.  

Aside from this, have you actually read the Qur'an ?
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Messages In This Thread
Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 9:10 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 24, 2017 at 9:20 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 9:50 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 24, 2017 at 10:45 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Magilla - June 25, 2017 at 12:04 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 25, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 25, 2017 at 5:49 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Anomalocaris - June 25, 2017 at 8:22 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Zen Badger - June 24, 2017 at 9:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 10:07 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Ravenshire - June 25, 2017 at 2:18 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 8:13 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Zen Badger - June 25, 2017 at 3:38 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 27, 2017 at 9:45 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 9:28 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Jesster - June 24, 2017 at 9:35 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 9:46 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 9:33 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Joods - June 24, 2017 at 9:45 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Jesster - June 24, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ignoramus - June 24, 2017 at 9:54 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 1:06 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 9:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 10:36 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Chad32 - June 24, 2017 at 9:56 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Fireball - June 24, 2017 at 9:58 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 10:54 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 24, 2017 at 11:00 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 11:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Fireball - June 25, 2017 at 12:01 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 24, 2017 at 10:10 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 24, 2017 at 10:11 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 11:04 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 24, 2017 at 11:09 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 24, 2017 at 11:14 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 24, 2017 at 11:24 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 10:21 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 27, 2017 at 10:25 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 27, 2017 at 3:06 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Angrboda - June 25, 2017 at 5:46 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Fireball - June 24, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - June 24, 2017 at 10:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Jesster - June 24, 2017 at 10:31 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Jesster - June 24, 2017 at 10:58 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Court Jester - June 24, 2017 at 11:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Minimalist - June 24, 2017 at 11:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 25, 2017 at 12:21 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 25, 2017 at 12:15 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 25, 2017 at 1:13 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ignoramus - June 25, 2017 at 1:20 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 25, 2017 at 1:21 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - June 25, 2017 at 4:09 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2017 at 10:48 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 11:02 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2017 at 11:07 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 11:32 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 25, 2017 at 11:41 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2017 at 11:42 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 12:18 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 12:38 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Minimalist - June 25, 2017 at 1:38 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Minimalist - June 25, 2017 at 11:44 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - June 25, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Whateverist - June 25, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Aoi Magi - June 25, 2017 at 12:01 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2017 at 12:38 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Ben Davis - June 25, 2017 at 12:52 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 25, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 1:00 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - June 25, 2017 at 1:04 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 1:22 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 25, 2017 at 4:36 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 1:24 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 1:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 1:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 25, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 25, 2017 at 1:26 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 1:31 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 2:12 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 25, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 6:17 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 25, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 27, 2017 at 8:56 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 1:45 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 2:06 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Alex K - June 25, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Anomalocaris - June 25, 2017 at 3:05 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 5:56 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 27, 2017 at 1:32 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 5:49 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Joods - June 25, 2017 at 6:04 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Jesster - June 25, 2017 at 6:06 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 25, 2017 at 6:09 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Joods - June 25, 2017 at 6:10 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 25, 2017 at 7:12 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 25, 2017 at 7:02 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 27, 2017 at 8:33 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 27, 2017 at 9:00 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 27, 2017 at 11:16 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 27, 2017 at 1:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by mlmooney89 - June 27, 2017 at 9:42 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 27, 2017 at 2:31 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 27, 2017 at 3:07 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 27, 2017 at 3:14 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 27, 2017 at 3:21 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 7:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by brewer - June 25, 2017 at 7:34 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 25, 2017 at 7:38 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 26, 2017 at 10:19 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 26, 2017 at 10:23 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 26, 2017 at 10:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Qwraith - June 27, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ignoramus - June 27, 2017 at 4:39 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 27, 2017 at 9:28 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 27, 2017 at 9:30 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 27, 2017 at 11:43 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 27, 2017 at 5:20 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by vorlon13 - June 27, 2017 at 9:45 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 10:25 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 27, 2017 at 12:17 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 29, 2017 at 10:58 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2017 at 11:15 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 29, 2017 at 11:20 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by paulpablo - June 29, 2017 at 2:49 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Harry Nevis - June 29, 2017 at 11:30 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 27, 2017 at 12:43 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 29, 2017 at 11:12 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 29, 2017 at 11:21 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - June 29, 2017 at 11:28 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 11:35 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - June 29, 2017 at 1:16 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - July 1, 2017 at 3:47 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - July 1, 2017 at 5:19 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - July 1, 2017 at 5:53 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astreja - July 2, 2017 at 1:46 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 30, 2017 at 11:58 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 3:03 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 30, 2017 at 12:18 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 30, 2017 at 6:42 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 27, 2017 at 1:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 27, 2017 at 10:20 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 12:14 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 2:07 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 28, 2017 at 3:04 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Wyrd of Gawd - June 28, 2017 at 1:43 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 28, 2017 at 5:44 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Whateverist - June 28, 2017 at 6:46 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 28, 2017 at 7:29 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 10:58 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 12:29 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Mister Agenda - June 30, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - June 30, 2017 at 4:18 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - June 30, 2017 at 7:56 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 30, 2017 at 10:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - July 1, 2017 at 5:45 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by OverGod - June 28, 2017 at 6:26 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 28, 2017 at 6:29 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by OverGod - June 28, 2017 at 6:36 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Succubus - June 29, 2017 at 6:43 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - June 29, 2017 at 1:25 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Whateverist - June 28, 2017 at 7:22 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Whateverist - June 28, 2017 at 7:59 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2017 at 12:32 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 12:46 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2017 at 11:03 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2017 at 11:24 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2017 at 11:44 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 11:56 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 29, 2017 at 3:00 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 4:29 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 11:31 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 4:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 4:47 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Succubus - June 29, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 5:01 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 29, 2017 at 5:08 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2017 at 11:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Valkyrie - June 29, 2017 at 11:33 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2017 at 11:35 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Parsim0ny - July 1, 2017 at 3:35 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - July 2, 2017 at 4:53 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by The Grand Nudger - June 29, 2017 at 11:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by bennyboy - June 29, 2017 at 11:47 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 29, 2017 at 11:56 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 1:07 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 30, 2017 at 1:14 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 1:22 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 12:09 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 30, 2017 at 1:06 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 30, 2017 at 4:44 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Succubus - June 30, 2017 at 5:46 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 30, 2017 at 6:10 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - June 30, 2017 at 12:16 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 30, 2017 at 12:40 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 30, 2017 at 1:38 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by LadyForCamus - June 30, 2017 at 1:42 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - June 30, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by downbeatplumb - June 30, 2017 at 1:42 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - June 30, 2017 at 8:49 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 11:56 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 12:45 pm
Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by LadyForCamus - June 30, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - June 30, 2017 at 3:25 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 1:10 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 1:52 pm
Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by LadyForCamus - June 30, 2017 at 2:04 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by LastPoet - June 30, 2017 at 3:10 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - June 30, 2017 at 3:21 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Cyberman - June 30, 2017 at 9:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Crossless1 - June 30, 2017 at 10:30 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Pat Mustard - July 1, 2017 at 6:37 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by dyresand - June 30, 2017 at 11:25 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by ManofYesterday - June 30, 2017 at 11:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by dyresand - July 1, 2017 at 1:25 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Edwardo Piet - July 1, 2017 at 3:41 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Silver - July 1, 2017 at 5:23 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - July 1, 2017 at 6:27 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - July 1, 2017 at 7:40 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - July 1, 2017 at 7:55 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Astonished - July 1, 2017 at 8:22 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - July 1, 2017 at 8:41 pm
Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by TheBeardedDude - July 3, 2017 at 9:20 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Whateverist - July 3, 2017 at 10:34 am
Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by TheBeardedDude - July 3, 2017 at 10:36 am
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by Amarok - July 3, 2017 at 2:54 pm
RE: Is atheism self-contradictory ? - by JackRussell - July 3, 2017 at 3:50 pm

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