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If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
#82
RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
(August 5, 2017 at 1:56 am)ComradeMeow Wrote:
(August 5, 2017 at 12:43 am)Astonished Wrote: I think I see the misunderstanding here. I'm using the same definition you outlined in your previous post, but you're making an extreme exaggeration (as I already pointed out) and making a false equivalency between faith as an everyday thing and the trust we put in things based on evidence. I don't need to have faith in gravity for it to keep my ass firmly planted on the ground. We have satellites and all kinds of shit to help us figure out if there's a meteor coming to blow our planet to bits. We take what precautions we can afford to ensure that we can sleep at night without our houses being broken into by strangers and our throats slit while we're at our most vulnerable, and we can put trust in the fact that the odds of something like that happening are about as good as winning the lottery (just for illustration, it takes faith to believe you'll WIN the lottery, not to believe you won't win), and even if someone did break in, they're far more likely to just be there to steal shit and not just randomly harm someone for their sick pleasure.

So if you're saying everyone is motivated by completely irrational fears, you're bogus. We're aware of what can happen and how likely those things are to happen and how to deal with them accordingly. There's no reason to think it's MORE likely for that kind of shit to happen than not, if you manage to survive to be more than one day old. I'm 32, have been hit by reckless drivers while on my bike three times and walked away from each. I've only just taken to wearing a helmet because this most recent time is the only one where I've been injured severely enough to need to go to a hospital. And I've continued to ride the bike ever since. I have ZERO trust in drivers not to hit me but I don't have any other way of getting around and I'm extremely cautious because I understand how moronic people are the second they get behind the wheel of a car. But faith? No, dear, everything about that is EXTREMELY grounded in facts, reasonable expectations and statistics. Just like everything else in life that doesn't revolve around things like religion and other woo, the only places where faith is involved. So please, don't go throwing that word around like it doesn't mean what you seem to be able to describe.

I am not saying this at all. In my first post I was using faith in the most basic of terms. I was using at a belief that people cling to without very good reasons and I compared it to the possibility if not inevitable future that a meteorite will collide with earth one day, granted we don't stop it by some means. I then compared it to the fact that we do not change our lives on the basis of faith either. You already made a comparable point acknowledging the trust we put into our safety. 

I never addressed irrational fears and their motivational effects though. Nor have I ever claimed that everybody experiences faith all throughout their lives. I said the opposite, I said earlier that nobody changes their behavior even though the things they trust the most only are trusted on the basis of faith. Most religious people and even atheists do not realize the amount of faith they put into things that are for the most part bad ideas, political parties are an obvious example of this. 

Also the analogy you have made with your biking incident is another such example of the amount of faith you put into the probability of you not having an accident. You gave up that faith obviously and began wearing a helmet which I give props to you for doing so and you have obviously increased your skepticism of driver's ability to know what they are doing. But saying that faith is a religious concept is ignoring what the word has always meant. Look at how the word is even used in everyday language and see its lack of religious connotation. 

Also you mentioned facts and faith which can't be compared because faith is how a person feels towards something. I can say, "I have faith in your ability to write beautiful poetry" but never would you hear me or anyone say, "I have facts that you are great in your ability write beautiful poetry." You keep giving the word faith an odd religious context which I am not using nor do I think it is appropriate to make it a religious word. I use spirit in the original context and never religious hence whenever I say, "that is spiritually uplifting." I am only using the word in context to life and and not some ethereal floating consciousness.

I personally am a very paranoid person which is why I have a massive hangup about faith though. I am the kind of person that can plan every detail of my life for a whole week and never stray once. The only thing I can leave to faith is my current relationship and the hope I have that I will never be departed from my significant other.

Faith doesn't have to be religious in all contexts, it's simply UNSUPPORTED BY EVIDENCE, which is why I'm so insistent that you not keep insulting every person who doesn't actually do that in their life the way condescending religious fucks do during debates and speeches. Hope and faith are not synonyms either. If you have such a hangup about faith, as you claim, I completely fail to see why you're still using it at all, let alone misusing it so badly in every post we've been discussing it here. Nothing in my life is based on thinking things without some kind of rational evidence-based or reason-based justification. Not remotely comparable to entirely unsupported, irrational judgments about things based on blind faith. If that's something I'm continuing to fail to impress upon you, all I can conclude is that something's not quite right here. If you've still got faith in your life, (or are simply misusing it in applying it to yourself) that's your prerogative, but you shouldn't project that onto others who left that behind long, long ago.
Religions were invented to impress and dupe illiterate, superstitious stone-age peasants. So in this modern, enlightened age of information, what's your excuse? Or are you saying with all your advantages, you were still tricked as easily as those early humans?

---

There is no better way to convey the least amount of information in the greatest amount of words than to try explaining your religious views.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary? - by Astonished - August 5, 2017 at 11:21 am

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