God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability

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God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability

Astreja Offline

Loose Cannon of the Æsir

Religious Views: Agnostic atheist

Posts: 3151
Threads: 8
Joined: October 7, 2016
Reputation: 39

#247

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability

September 26, 2017 at 11:15 am

(September 25, 2017 at 4:58 pm)Godscreated Wrote: As I've said many times faith comes first, then belief and finally knowledge, there is an order to the Christian way.

And this is why I cannot be a Christian. I do it the other way around -- Knowledge, then belief, then faith. I am neurologically incapable of placing trust in things for which I have no direct experience and no physical evidence. Guess your imaginary fiend wants me to burn in its imaginary hell.

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God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - August 25, 2017 at 8:46 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 25, 2017 at 10:30 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by vorlon13 - August 26, 2017 at 10:02 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 26, 2017 at 10:26 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 26, 2017 at 3:27 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Industrial Atheist - August 25, 2017 at 10:31 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 25, 2017 at 10:44 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 25, 2017 at 2:32 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by OYSTERPRICK - September 13, 2017 at 5:36 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 10:49 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 25, 2017 at 11:00 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 25, 2017 at 3:09 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Amarok - August 25, 2017 at 2:07 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 25, 2017 at 2:12 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2017 at 2:18 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Brian37 - August 25, 2017 at 2:35 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Catholic_Lady - August 25, 2017 at 3:06 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Brian37 - August 26, 2017 at 9:17 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 25, 2017 at 6:37 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 26, 2017 at 9:46 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 10:30 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 26, 2017 at 10:44 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by vorlon13 - August 26, 2017 at 10:36 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 26, 2017 at 3:16 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Simon Moon - August 26, 2017 at 5:15 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 9:19 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 27, 2017 at 10:29 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - August 26, 2017 at 7:41 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 26, 2017 at 7:44 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 26, 2017 at 8:04 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 12:03 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 28, 2017 at 1:10 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by zebo-the-fat - August 27, 2017 at 9:25 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 12:07 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by zebo-the-fat - August 27, 2017 at 5:03 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 3:52 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 26, 2017 at 3:57 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 27, 2017 at 2:56 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 26, 2017 at 4:58 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Ravenshire - August 26, 2017 at 6:35 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 27, 2017 at 8:58 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 9:21 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 27, 2017 at 10:35 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 27, 2017 at 3:06 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 27, 2017 at 7:09 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Ravenshire - August 27, 2017 at 12:21 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - August 28, 2017 at 10:34 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 28, 2017 at 10:50 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 26, 2017 at 5:07 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 26, 2017 at 7:33 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by brewer - August 26, 2017 at 9:57 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 27, 2017 at 1:11 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 12:05 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 12:28 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 10:00 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 11:19 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 12:04 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 12:06 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 1:04 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 2:49 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 27, 2017 at 3:05 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 27, 2017 at 3:17 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 28, 2017 at 6:51 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 28, 2017 at 9:44 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 27, 2017 at 5:13 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 27, 2017 at 5:18 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 27, 2017 at 10:20 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - August 28, 2017 at 4:10 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 28, 2017 at 8:15 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by emjay - August 29, 2017 at 9:47 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 10:03 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by emjay - August 29, 2017 at 10:24 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 10:22 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by emjay - August 29, 2017 at 11:32 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 11:42 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by emjay - August 29, 2017 at 11:54 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 11:49 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 28, 2017 at 9:11 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 28, 2017 at 10:07 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 28, 2017 at 9:13 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 29, 2017 at 6:08 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 9:44 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 29, 2017 at 10:40 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:42 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 10:59 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 29, 2017 at 12:04 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 29, 2017 at 10:12 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 8:10 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 10:14 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 29, 2017 at 10:23 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:26 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 10:28 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:24 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 11:04 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 29, 2017 at 11:17 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 11:24 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 11:29 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 12:03 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 12:42 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 2:10 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 2:47 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 30, 2017 at 5:20 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 3:15 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 10:25 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:33 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 29, 2017 at 10:44 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:47 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Little Rik - August 29, 2017 at 10:55 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 29, 2017 at 12:52 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 29, 2017 at 4:47 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 29, 2017 at 4:40 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - August 30, 2017 at 7:42 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - August 30, 2017 at 8:45 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Catholic_Lady - August 30, 2017 at 9:50 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - August 30, 2017 at 9:55 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Catholic_Lady - August 30, 2017 at 10:52 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 30, 2017 at 10:05 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - August 30, 2017 at 12:48 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Minimalist - August 30, 2017 at 2:36 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 30, 2017 at 3:19 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 29, 2017 at 10:35 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - August 30, 2017 at 9:32 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - August 30, 2017 at 5:31 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Crossless2.0 - August 30, 2017 at 5:34 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by John V - August 30, 2017 at 5:39 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - August 31, 2017 at 6:43 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Athene - August 31, 2017 at 6:49 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - August 31, 2017 at 10:57 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 1, 2017 at 1:03 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 4, 2017 at 5:41 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 4, 2017 at 10:32 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Neo-Scholastic - September 5, 2017 at 8:58 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Drich - September 5, 2017 at 11:17 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 7, 2017 at 1:24 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Crossless2.0 - September 7, 2017 at 3:42 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - September 13, 2017 at 7:28 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Redbeard The Pink - September 8, 2017 at 10:35 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Drich - September 15, 2017 at 8:33 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - September 6, 2017 at 9:16 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 5, 2017 at 2:52 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 5, 2017 at 4:44 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Drich - September 6, 2017 at 1:03 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 13, 2017 at 2:43 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 13, 2017 at 7:18 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 13, 2017 at 9:50 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - September 14, 2017 at 2:01 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 14, 2017 at 7:15 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 15, 2017 at 12:12 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - September 15, 2017 at 5:13 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 25, 2017 at 12:15 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - September 25, 2017 at 2:00 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 25, 2017 at 4:52 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Silver - September 25, 2017 at 4:54 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 25, 2017 at 4:58 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Silver - September 25, 2017 at 5:08 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 26, 2017 at 3:22 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 26, 2017 at 3:26 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Succubus - September 27, 2017 at 4:24 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 28, 2017 at 3:35 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - September 28, 2017 at 3:42 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 29, 2017 at 11:38 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 6, 2017 at 10:40 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - September 30, 2017 at 12:38 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 30, 2017 at 1:16 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - October 1, 2017 at 1:38 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - October 1, 2017 at 1:50 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - October 3, 2017 at 1:22 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - October 5, 2017 at 8:57 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - October 3, 2017 at 1:15 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - October 13, 2017 at 3:07 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - October 13, 2017 at 5:14 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Godscreated - October 13, 2017 at 11:27 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - October 14, 2017 at 5:26 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - October 13, 2017 at 9:27 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 26, 2017 at 3:37 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - September 20, 2017 at 10:29 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 20, 2017 at 11:11 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Drich - September 20, 2017 at 12:47 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - September 20, 2017 at 1:03 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 20, 2017 at 1:21 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Harry Nevis - September 7, 2017 at 8:08 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 6, 2017 at 9:51 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 7, 2017 at 3:15 pm

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2017 at 8:24 am

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RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2017 at 2:48 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 14, 2017 at 2:56 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 14, 2017 at 3:43 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by brewer - September 14, 2017 at 5:44 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Crossless2.0 - September 14, 2017 at 5:47 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 15, 2017 at 9:50 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Drich - September 19, 2017 at 1:01 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 19, 2017 at 3:06 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 19, 2017 at 3:17 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 19, 2017 at 8:17 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 15, 2017 at 10:02 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 16, 2017 at 2:20 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 20, 2017 at 4:16 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - September 20, 2017 at 4:57 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 20, 2017 at 10:04 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Succubus - September 20, 2017 at 2:09 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by mordant - September 23, 2017 at 3:10 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 25, 2017 at 12:35 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - September 25, 2017 at 12:37 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by JackRussell - September 25, 2017 at 5:13 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - September 27, 2017 at 6:30 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - September 28, 2017 at 5:58 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Silver - September 28, 2017 at 6:01 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - September 28, 2017 at 7:20 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astreja - September 28, 2017 at 11:18 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - October 1, 2017 at 2:17 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - October 3, 2017 at 11:04 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - October 3, 2017 at 1:19 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - October 5, 2017 at 9:09 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - October 6, 2017 at 8:07 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - October 6, 2017 at 8:10 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - October 7, 2017 at 12:00 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2017 at 12:05 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - October 7, 2017 at 12:08 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2017 at 12:08 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by LadyForCamus - October 13, 2017 at 3:47 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Astonished - October 7, 2017 at 12:16 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2017 at 12:51 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Succubus - October 7, 2017 at 6:40 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 7, 2017 at 8:23 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by I_am_not_mafia - October 13, 2017 at 6:32 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - October 13, 2017 at 11:29 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Edwardo Piet - October 13, 2017 at 11:38 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Amarok - October 14, 2017 at 12:20 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - October 14, 2017 at 2:25 am

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by The Grand Nudger - October 16, 2017 at 2:04 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by Cyberman - October 16, 2017 at 10:33 pm

RE: God and the dilemma with unfalsifiability - by ignoramus - October 16, 2017 at 11:07 pm

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