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If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary?
(October 18, 2017 at 2:52 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote:
(October 13, 2017 at 4:40 am)pocaracas Wrote: What is chaos?
"
Chaos theory is a branch of mathematics focused on the behavior of dynamical systems that are highly sensitive to initial conditions. 'Chaos' is an interdisciplinary theory stating that within the apparent randomness of chaotic complex systems, there are underlying patterns, constant feedback loops, repetition, self-similarity, fractals, self-organization, and reliance on programming at the initial point known as sensitive dependence on initial conditions.
"

Do you suppose that our Universe was that sensitive to the initial conditions?
Could it have been any different, if not for the underlying hand of a guiding conscious entity?

If there is one guiding conscious entity, how did that one entity come about? What sort of dimensionality does it have? What sort of matter is it made of?
Are there more than one of it?

If the big bang marks the start of our spacetime, that means that time is meaningless without the big bang. How could an entity exist if no time exists? How could an entity generate a Universe, if no time exists for it to carry out an action?

In our Universe, as far as we can tell, much of the order we perceive comes by due to gravity. Gravity caused proton gas to contract beyond the fusion point thus lighting up the stars. Gravity comes from those protons' mass. Mass comes from energy, Energy comes from the Big Bang. The Big Bang comes from.... no one knows and anyone who claims to know is lying!
The current best guess relies on quantum fluctuations.
And everything works, no god is required to make it work.

Your definition of chaos is very strong, thank you for sharing it.

Strong?... nah! Just accurate.
I have come to learn to use words accurately, as much as possible.
Certainly, I'm still to this day guilty of using them inaccurately, when I use them colloquially, but there are some terms in theological discussions that need to be very well defined and agreed upon by both parties, before any discussion can happen.
And I know believers will often employ words with a colloquial meaning... and then twist them to their accurate meaning... and, because of that, I prefer to make things clear at the get go.

(October 18, 2017 at 2:52 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: As for how God came about, I just take His answer to Moses when asked His name in Exodus: "I AM WHO I AM." (from Exodus 3:14) God has always existed (and is the only one, also according to many references in the Bible, and it would make sense God created time to cause our existence because God exists outside of time, being omniscient), and I'll get more to how God always existing isn't that farfetched in a moment ...

Just today, on some other thread, I was telling a guy about this.
Look at the words you used.
"God always existed" - This means that god exists within time. Since the beginning of time.
"God created time" - This means that god performed the action of creation in the absence of time. Think about this. How can any action be carried out in the absence of time?
"God exists outside of time" - How would you know this? All you offered me were some words from a book written by people... and none of those words even address this. Where did this information come from? How can I trust it?


(October 18, 2017 at 2:52 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: Current evidence shows that abiogenesis (which is just life emerging from nonorganic matter) is impossible,

What?! what?! impossible?!
Where did you hear that lie?
It is proving to be very difficult to replicate abiogenesis in the lab, but from that to being shown that it's impossible is a big step in misinformation. You should check your sources.

(October 18, 2017 at 2:52 pm)speedyj1992 Wrote: so either life had to exist organically from the beginning or God existed from the beginning, unless we find something that suggests abiogenesis actually could've happened (the research on this is actually pretty interesting, you should look into Robert Hoyle and what his research, flawed as it was, looked at regarding experiments to generate proteins for DNA molecules from nothing). Either way, something had to exist from the beginning, and beleiving in

Your premise is wrong, so I don't expect the rest to follow through.
And do look up on actual biologists for this, instead of some astronomer.
"Sir Fred Hoyle FRS (24 June 1915 – 20 August 2001)[1] was an English astronomer who formulated the theory of stellar nucleosynthesis. He also held controversial stances on other scientific matters—in particular his rejection of the "Big Bang" theory, a term coined by him on BBC radio, and his promotion of panspermia as the origin of life on Earth."

Again, check your sources.
Be careful with the terms you use.
Try to find things with the minimal bias possible.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: If evidence for god is in abundance, why is faith necessary? - by pocaracas - October 18, 2017 at 7:31 pm

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