RE: Let us go back to "cold" hard logic."Time"
November 8, 2017 at 7:42 pm
(This post was last modified: November 8, 2017 at 7:54 pm by bennyboy.)
(November 7, 2017 at 9:45 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The argument shows there is a starter, and I showed why a starter would require will and power.
That didn't happen.
(November 5, 2017 at 3:03 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: 1. If some element of freedom of will exists, then the future doesn't already exist.Multi universes, and this fails.
Quote:2. We know we have some freedom of will with respect to choices we make.No we don't know that. We believe it. Or, we can define it so that the feeling is WHAT we call free will.
Quote:3. Therefore the future doesn't already exist.You made two total assumptions, and followed it with "therefore." That's really weak. Let me try this:
If aliens are real, then people are alien slaves. We know aliens are real. Therefore, people are alien slaves.
See the problem?
Quote:4. Time passed away is growing.Maybe, if time is a thing which can be said to "grow."
Quote:5. If time is infinite, it would span endlessly in the future as it does in the past.Nope. One direction of infinity is sufficient.
Quote:6. Therefore time is not infinite.Here, again. You make a speculation, and then say "therefore."
If time is a bagel, then it's an onion bagel. Therefore, time is an onion bagel.
Quote:7. Therefore time is finite.You haven't arrived at this conclusion logically.
Quote:8. If time is finite, there is a start.Most of us already think this.
Quote:9. Now if start always existed it would be eternal.Eternal means "across all time," but the start is only the start. Your words don't mean anything here.
Quote:10. Eternal implies it spans endlessly, yet it is just a "point" in time and time is finite both which contradicts this notion.That's not a rational conclusion-- it's a result of your goofy semantics.
Quote:11. The first moment in time didn't always exist.Exist where? To exist means to be real in time and space. What does this sentence even mean?
Quote:12. Something caused the first moment in time to exist.You're still having trouble with the word "exist." For something not to exist, and then to exist, there must be a framework in which the thing can be located. There's no such thing as a time when time didn't exist.
Quote:13. A lawless state beyond time cannot all of a sudden implement rules to itself with no time to make the change available nor anything in motion.Okay.
Quote:14. It is irrational to believe a stateless universe before time started time and all the rules that come with the universe.Again, your semantics are bad. "Before" means, "located earlier IN TIME." Talking about a time before time is like talking about a donutless donut-- it's just goofy talk.
Quote:15. The starter of time and space requires will and power.Literally nothing in 1-14 arrives sensibly at this conclusion. Nor, if there is a starter of the universe, have you explained how IT could possibly exist. "Exist" means be present in time and space. So where does this Starter of Universes exist?
Look, whatever you do, something must have existed without having been created. But if there is a God, then how did it come to being? You cannot logically describe this state. But if anything is allowed to be a paradox, why invite Sky Daddy to fill that role? Let the Universe itself do it, or the multiverse, or a quantum foam. No Jew-hating required.