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When does biblical history begin ?
#33
RE: When does biblical history begin ?
(November 18, 2017 at 4:05 am)Aroura Wrote:
(November 18, 2017 at 12:12 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Not a lie at all. The general consensus amongst historians world wide is that Jesus was a real person who died by crucifixion under punctious pilot, the Roman prefect at the time. I remember even when I went to a public high school, Jesus' was mentioned in our World History book as the man who founded Christianity. His existence is just as much a historical fact as Cleopatra, Julius Caesar, and Mohammed. You can deny it all you want I suppose, but that is not what is widely accepted by people who actually study/investigate history.

Hi!
I won't be a dick, I promise, but let me clarify.

Nearly all New Testament scholars agree that Jesus was a real person.
This is not the same as historians.  So when you use the generic term "historians", you are inaccurate and might be called out on it.
Although many historians of a more general nature do accept that he existed and was crucified, but that is becoming more and more widely questioned. And there is certainly no consensus that he founded Christianity at all (and certainly none that he was resurrected or any of the important stuff that would make him the Son of God), as a matter of fact, as it is widely agreed that nothing was written about him until at least 70 years after his death, the widely accepted scholarly theory is that Paul started Christianity.

One of the reasons these facts are often questioned is because New Testament scholars would have a vested interest in finding historical evidence, and their biases are becoming more and more widely recognized.

There is quite a lot of evidence that Mohammad and Cleopatra actually lived, there is actually quite a lack of evidence for Jesus.  There is some, I admit, for a wandering Jewish person who was teaching radical religion in the area, as there were a number of Jewish fringe groups at that time.  
But even assuming there was a wondering Jewish priest named Jesus who was later crucified does absolutely nothing to prove the accuracy of the other 99% of the claims in the New Testament.

New Testament scholars, yes. But the general consensus among historians as well, in regards to Jesus, is that He existed and died by crucifixion under Punctius Pilot. I know it isn't all of them, but it is generally accepted among most that at least that much is historical fact. 

As for Him having founded Christianity, I don't claim to know what the "general consensus" is there, but it is true (despite Succumbs' accusations of me lying) that this is what my World History book taught us in High school. 10th grade. I distinctly remember this because I went to a public school at the time and I thought it was cool that Jesus was being acknowledged as a real person in history, outside of anything religion related. And though Paul played a huge role in spreading Christianity and establishing it officially, it was Jesus' name that was stated as the actual founder of the new faith. 


Quote:Also as a side note, you said there was historical agreement that the apostles existed? and that is simple not at all true
Even among biblical scholars, there is a wide division of opinion on this topic.

Hope I wasn't a dick, I tried not to be!  Just sharing info. Smile

I didn't say there was wide historical agreement on that, only on Jesus' existence and death by crucifixion. Though there is evidence that the disciples existed and that they were central to the very early rapid spread of Christianity. Whether that evidence is "enough" seems to be subjective and not as much as the evidence for Jesus Himself.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 17, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by vorlon13 - November 17, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Catholic_Lady - November 17, 2017 at 7:47 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Wyrd of Gawd - November 17, 2017 at 9:44 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Huggy Bear - November 17, 2017 at 10:26 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Wyrd of Gawd - November 18, 2017 at 12:21 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Huggy Bear - November 18, 2017 at 5:27 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Wyrd of Gawd - November 18, 2017 at 6:46 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Succubus - November 17, 2017 at 11:17 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Catholic_Lady - November 18, 2017 at 12:12 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Succubus - November 18, 2017 at 12:31 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Catholic_Lady - November 18, 2017 at 12:34 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Succubus - November 18, 2017 at 12:44 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Catholic_Lady - November 18, 2017 at 12:51 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Aroura - November 18, 2017 at 4:05 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 5:53 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Aroura - November 18, 2017 at 6:08 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 6:54 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Aroura - November 18, 2017 at 7:00 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 7:36 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Aroura - November 18, 2017 at 7:39 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 7:55 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Aroura - November 18, 2017 at 8:27 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 9:12 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Catholic_Lady - November 18, 2017 at 2:32 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Succubus - November 18, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Harry Nevis - November 20, 2017 at 10:03 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Grandizer - November 20, 2017 at 10:12 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by The Grand Nudger - November 17, 2017 at 9:51 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Minimalist - November 17, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Huggy Bear - November 17, 2017 at 10:53 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Fireball - November 17, 2017 at 11:58 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 18, 2017 at 2:07 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Minimalist - November 18, 2017 at 8:17 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Little Rik - November 19, 2017 at 7:31 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Minimalist - November 21, 2017 at 2:17 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Gawdzilla Sama - November 17, 2017 at 11:08 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Haipule - November 18, 2017 at 12:50 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Minimalist - November 18, 2017 at 1:25 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 18, 2017 at 5:16 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Cod - November 18, 2017 at 5:20 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by vorlon13 - November 18, 2017 at 5:43 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Cod - November 18, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 20, 2017 at 2:33 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Ravenshire - November 20, 2017 at 3:33 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 20, 2017 at 4:29 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Cod - November 22, 2017 at 5:28 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 18, 2017 at 6:24 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 20, 2017 at 2:59 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 20, 2017 at 4:10 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 22, 2017 at 5:36 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 22, 2017 at 1:30 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 23, 2017 at 2:13 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 23, 2017 at 7:51 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Godscreated - November 24, 2017 at 1:21 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by possibletarian - November 24, 2017 at 1:27 am
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Harry Nevis - November 21, 2017 at 1:51 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by The Grand Nudger - November 20, 2017 at 2:47 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Brian37 - November 20, 2017 at 4:25 pm
RE: When does biblical history begin ? - by Whateverist - November 22, 2017 at 1:31 pm

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