RE: List of reasons to believe God exists?
December 4, 2017 at 12:10 am
(This post was last modified: December 4, 2017 at 12:33 am by henryp.)
(December 3, 2017 at 10:44 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote: It's not a wish list, personally this world itself is very strange and leads to belief.
For example; having consciousness. Then having planets with orbits, then having the laws of nature. It is too fishy that it indicates that there must be a designer behind it all.
The wish list, I just meant is the perks that become available after you decide there is a God/Creator. So if I agreed, 'it really is too fishy, there must be a designer.' There's no way to conclude from that that humans have souls and will live in heaven for eternity. You have to want that to be the conclusion, and then figure out a way to get there from a designer, in my opinion.
Is there more to the fishiness aspect? I get that. It seems really improbable. But lots of things/events seem really improbable and we not only witness them occur, but we know how and when and why they occur. What makes you not only suspicious but confident the improbability of some things is so high that a designer is required. Is there a number you have in mind? Like 1 in a Billion means it's probably a designer?
The trick with big numbers, is that the improbable doesn't stay improbable. We have our lottery over here with odds of a ticket winning at 1 in 292 million. Which seems improbable. It's no surprise that the winner will thank God when they win. But most of the time somebody will win because millions of people buy millions of tickets making a lot of opportunities for the 1 in 292 million to happen. So many, that the odds of at least one person winning is probably like 1 in 3. I don't think we need a God to explain 1 in 3.
If you apply the same thinking to consciousness. That seems like a long shot. A lot of shit has to go right to result in consciousness. How much? I don't know. I can't imagine you do either. We just know it's a big number. But 13.8 Billion years and an entire universe is a lot of tickets. So when you say it seems fishy, are you sure it is? It could be 1 in 2. It might be 99 out of 100. You could be looking at an absolute statistical certainty and be thinking 'it seems fishy'.
Something might be unlikely is not the strongest case to base a belief in God on. (edit: is there anything else? Like if you were trying to convince me, I can't imagine you'd just say "seems unlikely, you should believe in a designer.")
I'd also say to theists that reply, if you want to ignore the dipshit atheists that always flood these types threads, and just talk with me (and of course the other non dipshit atheists), that'd be cool and appreciated. I'm sincerely interested in what you have to say. But it seems like it's always a race to get a conversation going before the same boring people show up and say the same boring shit over and over and over.