List of reasons to believe God exists?

[henryp]

We don't just want there to be morality, accountability and intrinsic value, we know these things exist.  If you come to the table denying all these things because they are not physical, well first prove five senses measures reality, I am 100% sure you cannot. Because even if material things exist without spiritual nature, it would not be defined by five senses and the way they exist would be beyond it. It's not touching that defines essence, neither vision, etc, something else defines it.

But we see ourselves exist, and that is our best bet of what reality is, and it's spiritual. We also have a perpetual identity and it's not simply our want of that to be the case, but is the case that it is something we perceive to be.

I think reducing my belief in the physical to the 5 senses is selling us short.  Because it's our 5 senses in conjunction with our brains computational power.  What's so fascinating about our 5 senses, is that it's a bunch of lies.  We know the sky's not blue.  That sounds, tastes, and smells don't exist outside of individual brains.   We know the 5 senses are just a loose interpretation of the world.  But we've reverse engineered it, so that now we are able to understand what our 5 senses are perceiving.  And by doing so, we are able to not only understand the nature of our world, but verify it through testing.

I think perpetual identity is silly.  We can turn a human's consciousness off and on.  We can physically alter who a person is.  Our understanding of the brain is cleaning house on all these 'spiritual' things in the same way we dumped the notion the sky is actually blue.  I'm sure there are anthropologists/psychologists/sociologists/neuroscientists who have evolutionary/biological explanations of why you 'know' the non-physical stuff.  It appears there's already a set of existing explanations based on the physical that I refer to, and if there's not, it's imminent.  So when you say there's more than just the physical, you aren't just believing the something more, you're denying physical evidence that points otherwise.

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Wallym, just as it is not a reason to believe in something because you wish it to be true, the same is true of dismissing something because you believe it's too good to be true or think it's what everyone wants any ways.

It happens that the best thing possible is true, that is God exists. There is plenty of proofs for it regardless of whether we desire it or hate it.

I don't believe it because not only do I see no reason to believe it, but I think there's evidence that shows it to be false or at least evidence at this point that points to it likely being false.  We're learning so much about the brain, that there just isn't enough room to squeeze in a God anymore.

I've read plenty of your proofs.  And sometimes we get into it a little.   Unfortunately, there's that clown car that follows you around, and every time you post, the same 50 people pour out of it drawing your attention in a number of directions.  You're a very popular fellow!  

I usually don't have a problem with most of your conclusions.  My disagreement tends to be with your premises.  Most proofs usually begin with an intuitive sounding statement.  "Hey, we all agree Hitler is evil, right?"  And then you go on for a while.  But I don't concede Hitler is evil.  It's an outlandish thing to disagree with intuitively, but intuition is often just sloppy thinking in my opinion.  

What you're doing by saying "Hitler is evil, right?"  Is trojan horsing a bunch of your beliefs in a more palatable form.  I don't think humans have value.  I don't believe in morality.  I don't think existence is bettered or worsened in any way by humans being murdered.  In fact, I don't think there is even a measurement of the state of existence.  It just is.  

But by presenting "Hitler is evil, right?" everybody has to agree on all the things that go into Hitler being evil.  I'm familiar with the strategy, because as a christian apologist in my younger years, I did the same thing.