RE: List of reasons to believe God exists?
December 8, 2017 at 2:18 pm
(This post was last modified: December 8, 2017 at 2:28 pm by SteveII.
Edit Reason: changed a phrase in penultimate sentence
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(December 7, 2017 at 1:41 pm)Khemikal Wrote: While moral realism as a subset has left the god proposition behind as uneccessary, that doesn't mean that moral realism is unavailable to you, as a believer. Frankly, if something truly is objectively wrong..it's objectively wrong regardless of whether or not there is a god..and I'm having trouble understanding why we can't agree to that, between you and I?
If we can't agree to that..which of us is actually the moral realist.....? Food for thought....the contention that, in the absence of god, there is no objective morality, is nothing more or les than the contention that..in the absence of god, there are no facts. How's -that- for an absurd belief? Can we agree to the existence of facts? If we can't...what's the point in discussing anything? If you have to establish god before you can establish facts but you can't establish god without establishing facts...how do you propose to go about doing that for god or facts, moral or otherwise?
I think we can probably discuss the matter unencumbered, personally.
Okay, let's discuss the mechanics of reasoning to an objective moral fact. Morality almost always has to do with assessing comparative value between two or more different options. Value is influences by culture. Every generation exhibits at least small changes in culture which translates into small changes in how the population assesses value. That is why abortion is a great example. 200 years ago, no one made the same arguments as supporters do today. So, obviously the early 19th century and 21st century culture reflected differing views on the morality of the issue and if the claim of the existence of objective morality is to be supported, one of them was wrong. But we are to believe there is an objective moral fact-of-the-matter that can be discovered. Please walk me through how that works.