(December 20, 2017 at 10:03 am)SteveII Wrote:(December 19, 2017 at 7:41 pm)Bow Before Zeus Wrote: Many apologies, Steve. I was in a rush, read the first part and only answered that. If I understand you correctly, your question is about the sin of all of humanity being the important focus of xtianity as this is what Christ suffered for and bore on his shoulders. I will address this question with scripture because that is of most meaning to a xtian.
From Genesis 3:16-19
Sorry about the KJV translation but it is my personal favourite. So here's the thing. Until this point, Adam and Eve lived in the garden of Eden as immortals, in perfect peace and harmony. It is only after the eating of the forbidden fruit that god made Eve able to bear children as a punishment for eating the fruit and for enticing Adam to do the same. Adam was punished with toil and hardship. So humanity's struggle on earth, its sin, suffering and pain is initiated by this single event. This is why it is pivotal in the xtian mythology.
Christ came to earth to bear the sins of humanity but those sins would not exist were if not for Adam and Eve's original sin.
I hope I have now answered your question adequately.
No, it does not.
First, your argument to succeed --which is evolution has invalidated Christianity-- you need at least two things to be true: 1) proof there was no Adam and Eve at any time and 2) that Christianity requires a literal reading of Gen 1-3.
1. I don't believe you have that proof at all, but for the sake of this post, let's assume you are right.
2. In the US (probably the most conservative group of Christians on the planet) only 24% believe that everything in the Bible is to be taken literally. If we project that over the 2.3 billion on the planet, that means there are somewhere in the neighborhood 1.7 billion your line of reasoning would not apply to. What if the Adam/Eve story was metaphorical? Do you think that man does not have sin nature? Redemption is still required. The message of the NT still applies 100%.
Hey Steve, this is great! Let's establish some ground rules that will allow us to discuss this topic with hopefully come to some sort of outcome one way or the other.
1. Evolution is a scientific fact. I am not going to debate evolution. The vast majority of scientists agree the facts of evolution and even some major religious organisations have thrown in the towel and accepted the fact of evolution. You might not agree with this but for the sake of this discussion, you need to accept it.
2. If evolution is a fact then there was no such thing as a "first" human being. The children of each generation are the same species as the parents - changes are so gradual that they cannot be noticed from generation to generation. Richard Dawkins has a great description of this in a thought experiment he does in one of his books - The Magic of Reality. To save you having to read the book, here is a 4 minute video of Professor Dawkins explaining it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4ClZROoyNM
3. The whole argument for the death of xtianity that I propose in the OP therefore hinges on taking the bible literally. So our discussion therefore should be confined as to whether this is the logical or reasonable way to read the bible.
4. The discussion is to be held with mutual respect for each other. I will not call your arguments crap and nor shall you mine. No derogatory put-downs, only reasoned argument.
If you agree with those 4 ground rules above, give me time to grab my single malt scotch whiskey and by Cuban cigar and let's sit down to have an exciting discussion about this!
With respect,
BBZ
