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Objective Morality?
#14
RE: Objective Morality?
(August 24, 2011 at 1:55 am)Captain Scarlet Wrote: I find this one of the most compelling cases I've heard for a realist approach to morality.

Thanks, it's been a long time coming. I don't find too many people approach it like that but it seems to make good use of moral language.

Quote:Is it possible for a desire/pleasure to become a fact about the physical universe?

It's a fact that I desire a bong hit and blow jobs bring me pleasure and that all of this is a product of my brain experiencing various phenomenon, something that is part of the physical universe...

Quote:I'm not so sure about that, there doesn't prima facie appear to be an instantiation of a desire

Instantiation as in a property of an object/entity? Sure there are. Desires exist as an emergent property of brains.

Quote:and what pleases me from minute to minute day to day may change rapidly.

Sure, suppose one minuet you dislike being slapped in the face and the next minuet you find it pleasurable, If someone slaps you while you dislike it they have had a negative effect on your values, if someone slaps you while you enjoy it they've had a positive effect.

Quote:More than this can desires build to become objectively true?

I'm not sure what your asking... Desires are the products of neural mechanisms, it is objectively true that I desire certain things.

Quote:Is it also possible that desires are also illusory and do not really exist?

I don't see how they possibly could be. Do you have any examples of illusory desires?

Quote:Imagine that same world where bathing was deemed to be bad. Now imagine those people had no desires, would the outcome be the same? Probably yes, but wouldn't that just be a rule that was imposed by that society and not really something that was morally good or bad.

If people had no desires they would probably have no values - Someone without values wouldn't value life so they wouldn't care whether or not they had any water for drinking or what the other person did with the water, nobody would have any reasons to do anything with the water period so nothing would be done with it and nobody would have any motivation to impose any rules. There would also be no such thing as good or bad, either morally or in terms of the individuals liking or disliking anything.

Read this if you have time; http://lesswrong.com/lw/71x/a_crash_cour..._of_human/

It's a long article but it summaries the modern understanding of human motivation.
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Messages In This Thread
Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 23, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 10:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 10:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 23, 2011 at 11:02 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by thesummerqueen - August 23, 2011 at 11:05 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 11:14 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 23, 2011 at 3:24 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 5:36 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 3, 2011 at 12:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 3, 2011 at 4:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 3, 2011 at 8:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 11:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 10:59 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 24, 2011 at 12:12 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 24, 2011 at 1:55 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 5:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by twocompulsive - August 24, 2011 at 2:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 24, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 9:10 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 24, 2011 at 11:35 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by kswheels - August 24, 2011 at 6:09 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 8:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - August 24, 2011 at 9:09 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2011 at 10:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 25, 2011 at 3:20 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 25, 2011 at 5:56 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 8:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 25, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 10:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 25, 2011 at 2:57 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Faith No More - August 25, 2011 at 10:38 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 25, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 10:49 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 8:51 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - September 9, 2011 at 10:50 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 7:30 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 8:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 8:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 8:29 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 20, 2011 at 11:54 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - September 20, 2011 at 7:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 9:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 20, 2011 at 11:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 4:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 21, 2011 at 10:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 5:08 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 22, 2011 at 6:43 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by leo-rcc - September 22, 2011 at 7:31 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 22, 2011 at 8:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by leo-rcc - September 22, 2011 at 9:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 23, 2011 at 6:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 9:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - September 20, 2011 at 10:15 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by downbeatplumb - September 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2011 at 6:04 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 8:01 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by fr0d0 - September 21, 2011 at 9:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2011 at 8:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 21, 2011 at 10:00 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - September 21, 2011 at 11:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 23, 2011 at 6:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by KichigaiNeko - September 22, 2011 at 8:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 23, 2011 at 8:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 23, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 5:34 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 7:02 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 7:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 7:55 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:29 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 9:34 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 26, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 11:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 12:39 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 27, 2011 at 2:05 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 5:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 8:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 9:04 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 26, 2011 at 11:29 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 26, 2011 at 11:50 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 27, 2011 at 12:47 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 1:49 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 27, 2011 at 12:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - September 27, 2011 at 3:08 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 3:55 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 27, 2011 at 7:39 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by KichigaiNeko - September 27, 2011 at 9:09 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by toro - September 30, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 4, 2011 at 5:54 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by cdog - October 4, 2011 at 6:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:36 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - October 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 1, 2011 at 5:19 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Modular Moog V - October 4, 2011 at 11:44 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 5, 2011 at 9:33 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 2:35 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 3:11 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 3:16 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 3:28 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - October 6, 2011 at 8:23 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 3:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Nappeun - October 6, 2011 at 6:31 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 6, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 4:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - October 6, 2011 at 11:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Angrboda - October 30, 2011 at 1:30 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - November 3, 2011 at 1:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by downbeatplumb - October 30, 2011 at 8:17 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2011 at 5:25 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:21 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 2, 2011 at 7:27 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 2, 2011 at 7:56 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 2, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:32 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 3, 2011 at 3:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 3:43 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 3, 2011 at 10:07 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 1:10 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 7:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - November 6, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 8, 2011 at 12:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 8:51 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 3:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 12:10 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 4, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 3, 2011 at 5:56 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 3, 2011 at 9:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 12:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 11:03 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 4, 2011 at 11:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 3:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 4, 2011 at 6:57 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 10:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 1:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 4, 2011 at 1:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 4, 2011 at 7:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 8:06 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 5, 2011 at 12:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 11:48 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 5, 2011 at 10:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 6, 2011 at 12:33 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 6, 2011 at 1:25 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 6, 2011 at 1:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 6, 2011 at 2:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 6, 2011 at 3:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 7, 2011 at 2:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 9, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - November 6, 2011 at 7:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2011 at 3:23 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 8, 2011 at 7:44 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 9, 2011 at 2:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 8:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 10, 2011 at 3:26 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 9:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 9:43 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:46 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - November 10, 2011 at 5:02 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 10, 2011 at 11:11 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 11, 2011 at 9:47 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by orogenicman - November 11, 2011 at 9:58 am

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