(January 10, 2018 at 10:54 am)Khemikal Wrote:(January 10, 2018 at 10:49 am)SteveII Wrote: Because salvation is supposed to change your heart. The evidence is a changed heart is to want to do the right thing to the best of our ability. Examples abound in the NT gospels and epistles as to what that is because while we do have a built in sense of morality when it comes to big things, the small things are not so clear since logically a Christian worldview is new to everyone at some point--even Christians. Examples from the top of my head: humility, love those that hate you, do not squander talents, self-sacrificing, etc. do not come naturally to most people.What on earth was in your hearts before they "changed"............?
I would say that Christian are on average more moral than atheists...IF you remove all nominal and cultural Christians from the comparison. The reason being that if a heart change is a result of salvation, then I would question a person's salvation if there is no heart change (or at least a desire). Of course this will bring up the No True Scotsman fallacy, but I don't think it applies because the definition of being a Christian is not ad hoc--it is clearly defined in the foundational documents--the NT.
For some of us, that's the default state.
Usually a combination of pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath and slothfulness which are foundations for a host of other less than perfectly moral actions. Are there people who have these under control without God (as in no desire to--not just avoid them)? I'm sure there are, but they would be rare exceptions, not the rule.