(January 30, 2018 at 4:07 pm)SteveII Wrote: Except I have shown the logic behind it. Obviously there are eternal consequences when and eternal soul rejects an eternal God. Bringing up a "finite mortal existence" is a straw man. Your objection is an appeal to emotion and/or incredulity.
Quote:Also, I've yet to encounter a cogent argument for why free will is so important to god, why he wants to spend eternity with lesser creatures, and why, instead, he couldn't directly populate heaven with the kind of creatures he wants rather than go through this test of faith.
I said this earlier in this thread: It [free will] is an ability that God created us with because it seems thinking, rational beings capable of choice, morality, and a real relationship between creator and creature seems to be the pinnacle of anything anyone could ever create--including God.
God did populate heaven with holy creatures. Angels. We are obviously created with a different purpose.
Quote:But, no, what I was actually trying to get you to think about is the ethical treatment of prisoners. I mean, hell is essentially a prison, is it not? Then how is it morally justified that time spent there is torturous? Doesn't perfect morality demand that the souls in hell not be tortured (either directly or indirectly) by your god?
I also said this earlier: So, what is hell? It is my view that the immaterial soul is the thing going to hell--which would be an immaterial place/existence/experience. I believe that while it is a place of torment, one is not eternally tortured by some overlord doing things to you. We are talking about souls and NOT bodies. Flames and teeth are material and would have no effect on the immaterial so all the lake of fire/weeping and gnashing of teeth references seem to be metaphors. The pain is spiritual and stems from the complete separation from God--a condition that obviously has a profound effect on the immaterial soul.
What is the big deal with being separated from a tyrant? Seems like a desirable state of affairs to me. Maybe the whole thing is a propaganda piece: like Greenland was all ice and Iceland was all green. Maybe that separation brings the greatest joy, eh?
For that matter, why would such a separation have such a horrid effect on an immortal soul? Wouldn't that something of a design flaw? Sounds like the designer needs to go back to the drawing board. In fact, it sounds down-right evil after a moment reflection.
And, of course, this is ignoring the more fundamental issue that the whole scenario is a fabrication. It's like being afraid of the lion is Aesop's fables.