Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?

[Ravenshire]

I still posit that if god simply wanted to hang around with other, yet lesser, holy beings for eternity, he could simply create them. This whole song and dance about creating inherently sinful mortals, and then testing their belief in a creator entity that feels that faith is somehow superior to knowledge, is idiotic. It's also incredibly immoral.

So, when Christians start throwing around terms like 'perfect justice' or 'perfect good', I simply must laugh. Because it's obvious they never actually thought about the nonsense terms they wield so easily.

Allegedly, it tried making beings without all the song and dance. According to the story, 1/3 of them rebelled, including the greatest among them, Lucifer. Seems gawd is just complete shit at creating beings that will actually do as commanded.

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But if a place had to be created that was separate from God as a result of our sins in light of God's essential (as in could not have been any other way) perfect holiness/justice, then who is responsible for such a place existing?

Well, *I* didn't create such a place.

And what good is "holiness/justice" if it requires existing in isolation from anything that might sully it?

Amazing how such an amazingly powerful being can be so easily sullied by the actions, hell, just the thoughts according to the buy-bull, of mere mortals.

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I would say that God is the perfection of each of his attributes. Arguments can be made that holiness is better than wicked. Justice is better than injustice. Concepts of perfectly holy and perfectly just separately and together carry entailments such as can't abide the presence of sin nor the can allow it to go unaddressed.

No, that doesn't necessarily follow.  A perfect being should be capable of at least seeing an imperfect being's point of view and able to lead that party closer to an acceptable state.  Your argument just makes your god sound fragile and petty.

Please remember that the main doctrines of Christianity have been discussed and written about by learned people for 2 millennium. Billions of hours of thought have gone into these concepts. Christianity's main problem today is the inability of the typical believer to defend doctrine against a more organized and sophisticated objector. However, that does not mean the there are not very good answers to the objections.

I've been aware of Christianity for over fifty years.  If anything, it makes even less sense than when I was first exposed to it.

Those "2 millennium [sic]" and "billions of hours of thought" are no help at all, as Christian theology doesn't come even remotely close to lining up with the reality that I'm aware of.  I've probably heard the best apologetic arguments dozens of times in the last decade or so, and from my POV the lot of you are just whistling in a big, noisy graveyard of stillborn ideas and wishful thinking.

2,000 years and billions of hours worth of dogs chasing their own tails, then trying to convince the common rabble there's actually something to it all.