[split] AF Hall of Shame, various discussion including Denmark & bible contradiction

[Angrboda]

And finally, no, not 'capiche' you pigeon. Your links don't marry up to the data presented by abaris just a couple of posts ago:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel...untry.html

Actually that is the exact link I posted, thank you very much

Article from September 11, 2013
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travel...untry.html

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And you ignored that all the top 10 states are secular.

Answer my question re: what you think secularism is (we all know you think secular = atheist but I want you to say it), and reply to the rebuttals, or GTFO.

Okay.  It does appear that Pandemonium erred in claiming that the top ten states/countries, including Denmark, were secular in the sense of having a secular state/government.  If that's what he was claiming, then fair enough.

As a parenthetical, I would note that, according to the Danish parliament, "People are under no obligation to be members of the Evangelical-Lutheran Church of Denmark." (My Constitutional Act with Explanations)  From what little I can glean from a cursory examination, the government of Denmark supports the church and provides direction and supervision of the church, but it's unclear just to what degree church and state are entangled in Denmark.

In Denmark, there is a high degree of control. The constitution provides that: 'The Evangelical Lutheran Church shall be the Folk Church of Denmark, and as such shall be supported by the State'; moreover, the monarch shall be a member of that church. However, the Danish folk church has no synod, no legal personality as a corporate body, and its constitution is to be laid down by statute (but this has not yet occurred). The church is subject to direct state control. The Ministry of Ecclesiastical Affairs determines rules on church membership, the creation of new parishes, and the appointment and dismissal of its clergy (who have the status of civil servants). Local church units (the parishes) operate as state agencies performing various administrative functions for the State, and all taxpayers who are members of the national church pay a church tax. Nevertheless, Danish law also provides for religious freedom, prohibitions against religious discrimination, and the operation of other religious organizations which may function freely in society.

Law and Religion in Europe: A Comparative Introduction, By Norman Doe (p. 30) (accessed here)

In the sense which Pandemonium asserted that secularism means there is no state mandated church, he seems to have been mistaken (depending on the meaning of "mandated" of course, as Denmark doesn't appear to require that everyone be a member of the state church). However, on the more general question, it's not as clearly black and white. While the Danish government appears to be deeply entrenched in the affairs of the church, it's not clear that the reverse is true, that the church is deeply entrenched in affairs of state. Is that an example of a non-secular government? It seems to me that Denmark falls in a gray area where the conclusion is not so obvious. Regardless, I concede the point; it does appear that Pandemonium was mistaken in his claims.