(March 2, 2018 at 1:33 am)stretch3172 Wrote:(March 1, 2018 at 11:07 pm)polymath257 Wrote: Human well being is good precisely because it is humans that are the moral agents here. It is our society that we want to organize and our judgements about well being that are controlling.
Since right and wrong is all about how humans interact with each other, it seems quite reasonable that we are the ones that get to decide the issue. Tp push it off on another, even a deity, is to deny our ability to think and care enough to figure it out. To the extent it is subjective, there will be disagreements and discussions. I don't see that as a bad thing. To the extent that everyone agrees even where most agree), there is no issue.
As for deities being good. If they exist and their goal is human well being, then they can supply a viewpoint to be discussed. But they (it, he"r, she) is not the ones for whom the morality is created: we create morality for human societies because we are human.
And no, simply creating the universe would not convey moral authority. Where the creator;s goals are different from human goals, we as humans are the ones making the decisions about for our morality. Again, even a good, 'perfect' deity would still only provide advisory information, not deciding authority. That comes from us.
Yes we are indeed the moral agents, and as such we already have an intuitive sense of what's ethical and what's not, which seems to be what you're alluding to. I also accept that human well-being is fundamental to morality, but where we must disagree is at the point concerning who has the right to "decide the issue." According to Christianity, God created all of creation "from Him and through Him and for Him" (Rom 11:36). I must bite the bullet and say that God created mankind for Himself and therefore has the authority to legislate morality, while we remain free to consider it rationally and better understand it for ourselves. I don't think we need God to behave like decent, moral people, but God does play a role in how we can properly understand and apply ethical principles.
And that is where I strongly disagree. Even *if* there is a GOd that created the universe, the fact that I am a conscious being in a society of conscious beings gives me and us the power to decide, not God.
For example, suppose that at some point we are able to create artificial intelligence. Would we have the right to dictate what rules an AI society would have for themselves? I'd say no, resoundingly.
If we can use our intellect to arrive at ethical principles that work for us, that is all that is required. Pleasing a deity just because that deity made us is a very poor basis for morality.
