Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[SteveII]

So this is even more interesting. There is no material cause to a novel or symphony (only an efficient cause). Both are abstract objects. Yet they can be a cause of their own once read or heard. You can be compelled to act by a novel or emotionally moved by a symphony. In the same way, ideas (conveyed through language) are not material and yet can have so much causal power. So not only is it possible that the immaterial is the efficient cause on the material (us), but it happens constantly.

That is an interesting point, Steve.

A real brain-twister:  In your example, a symphony would have to be related to a material cause (for example, a composer and a stack of manuscript paper).  There might be an immaterial cause behind that, though (for example, a young musician hearing an inspiring piece and deciding to become a composer).  I can conceive of an alternating series of material/efficient causation underlying a lot of things.  What do you think?

I agree, but to standardize the terminology, don't confuse material cause with something that is made of material but was really an efficient cause. The summarizing paragraph at the end of the article below brings it all together. So your point about a symphony, it would not have a material cause because the paper is not the symphony--it is used to convey the newly created abstract object: the symphony.  Just like the sound waves of someone talking are not the same as the idea that is being conveyed. 

• Matter: a change or movement's material "cause", is the aspect of the change or movement which is determined by the material that composes the moving or changing things. For a table, that might be wood; for a statue, that might be bronze or marble.
  
  
• Form: a change or movement's formal "cause", is a change or movement caused by the arrangement, shape or appearance of the thing changing or moving. Aristotle says for example that the ratio 2:1, and number in general, is the cause of the octave.
  
  
• Agent: a change or movement's efficient or moving "cause", consists of things apart from the thing being changed or moved, which interact so as to be an agency of the change or movement. For example, the efficient cause of a table is a carpenter, or a person working as one, and according to Aristotle the efficient cause of a boy is a father.
  
  
• End or purpose: a change or movement's final "cause", is that for the sake of which a thing is what it is. For a seed, it might be an adult plant. For a sailboat, it might be sailing. For a ball at the top of a ramp, it might be coming to rest at the bottom.
  

The four "causes" are not mutually exclusive. For Aristotle, several answers to the question "why" have to be given to explain a phenomenon and especially the actual configuration of an object. For example, if asking why a table is such and such, a complete explanation, taking into account the four aitias, would sound like this: This table is solid and brown because it is made of wood (matter), it does not collapse because it has four legs of equal length (form), it is as such because a carpenter made it starting from a tree (agent), it has these dimensions because it is to be used by men and women (end). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_causes