Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic

[RoadRunner79]

-If- time had a beginning...and that beginning of time coincides with..say, the bb....then there was a never a prior time t that the universe did not exist.  Ergo it did not begin to exist in the sense important or relevant to the thread (or argument).  Ergo it does not have a cause, in the sense important to the thread or argument..... for the reasons stated in the thread......or argument.

-If- there was some prior time t.....and the universe existed in some form but not this form prior to that time t...then whatever caused the change in state between t- and t+ is a proximate..rather than ultimate, cause.

Precisely. If matter, energy, and space are co-terminous with time, then there was never a time when there was no matter. So, there was not a *progression* from !matter to matter. So, once again, the KCA argument fails.

For me, if you are talking about a time before time, then you are using the word in two different ways.  Referring to a period of time, or in this instance a period where there was no time.