Our server costs ~$56 per month to run. Please consider donating or becoming a Patron to help keep the site running. Help us gain new members by following us on Twitter and liking our page on Facebook!
Current time: August 21, 2026, 6:35 am

Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
The most horrifying journey, this is what doubting 'everything' does.
#49
RE: The most horrifying journey, this is what doubting 'everything' does.
(April 2, 2018 at 9:37 pm)MysticKnight Wrote:
(April 2, 2018 at 8:48 pm)vulcanlogician Wrote: Theist or nontheist, one must accept axiomatic truth. Otherwise, you can't make a single rational argument. Not accepting a single axiom means that you deny that any knowledge is possible. If you deny that any knowledge is possible, why argue anything in the first place? "Axioms do not exist" is a self-defeating position.

I don't believe in axioms, but believe knowledge is possible. And I don't believe knowledge is possible by it being an axiom.

It's self-defeating position if the point is to argue. Yeah nothing can be proven, because, anyone can say well how do you know that.

Axioms also open a way to be lazy and just assert what you don't feel like justifying to just be an axiom.

It makes it easy to do away with the journey to knowing true nature of knowledge and certainty and reflection.

What can be evident to someone can be unclear to someone else.

In my Deist years,  I heavily depended on axioms being properly basic.

I don't believe anything is. You have to see what you believe based on living proof.

And that fact is not an axiom, but you realize through life experience.

You can't see the forest for the trees MK. Nobody (except self-absorbed sycophants) argues just to argue. We argue in order to get closer to the truth.

You seem to have some admiration for Socrates, so let's look at him for a moment. Socrates said, "The only thing I know is that I know nothing." Yet he still used and valued argument. Why? Because argument clarifies the case of both sides. By listening to or participating in argument, you get to learn what facts support both sides of an issue. That's why Socrates was wise to say that he knew nothing. What his statement really meant was: "I have no prejudices. I keep an open mind. I look at both sides of the argument."

Don't even think of argument as something that involves two people with differing views. Look at any truth claim: like the claim that clouds are made of water vapor. Ask yourself: What are the reasons that I accept this as the truth? And you might possibly come up with a "list of things"... a list of reasons why you accept that clouds are made of water vapor.

1) It is demonstrable that water can become vapor. (we've all noticed this phenomenon when boiling water on the stove).
2) When clouds are thick and heavy, it usually rains. (this supports the idea that clouds are made of water vapor).
3) When there are no clouds in the sky, it never rains (see above)
4) etc.
5) etc.

Okay, so this is the list of reasons why you believe that clouds are made of water vapor. But what is it a list of? It's a list of arguments. An "argument" is nothing more (or less) than a reason to believe something. If someone ever doubted that clouds are made of water vapor, your list of "reasons why you accept that clouds are made of water vapor" would be good ARGUMENTS to make against their position.

Arguments are how we get to the truth, MK. They are not just there to throw at people when we disagree with them. They are a list of reasons why we hold the position that we do.
Reply



Messages In This Thread
RE: The most horrifying journey, this is what doubting 'everything' does. - by vulcanlogician - April 2, 2018 at 10:17 pm

Possibly Related Threads...
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Lightbulb POLL: As an Atheist, What Do You View as Being the Most Rational Political Outlook? Engel 129 59909 January 20, 2026 at 8:45 am
Last Post: Nay_Sayer
  Agnosticism IS the most dishonest position R00tKiT 575 150425 March 18, 2020 at 9:24 pm
Last Post: Mr Greene
  Everything & Nothing possibletarian 0 1258 January 13, 2020 at 5:42 am
Last Post: possibletarian
  Most humans aren't too logical when it comes to world views and how to go about it. Mystic 28 8913 October 9, 2018 at 8:59 am
Last Post: Alan V
  What Major Intellectual Issue Most Keeps You From Accepting The Christian Narrative? Captain Hook 324 91751 March 21, 2018 at 1:11 pm
Last Post: Paraselene
  The second most atheistic group in the world is... Gawdzilla Sama 15 6489 December 2, 2016 at 3:19 pm
Last Post: vorlon13
  Reductio ad Absurdum: How to most efficently communicate with theists SenpaiNoticeMeYouBlindShmuck 32 10531 October 3, 2016 at 2:33 pm
Last Post: Simon Moon
  My Journey from Mormonism to Atheism InquiringMind 10 3507 September 21, 2016 at 1:53 pm
Last Post: purplepurpose
  According to thehumanist.com most of us are "village atheists" Lemonvariable72 14 4594 May 22, 2016 at 12:57 pm
Last Post: KevinM1
  Atheists still the most hated minority mediocrates 39 16498 January 19, 2016 at 8:14 am
Last Post: robvalue



Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)