RE: Disproving Odin - An Experiment in arguing with a theist with Theist logic
May 29, 2018 at 5:28 pm
(This post was last modified: May 29, 2018 at 5:31 pm by Edwardo Piet.)
(March 30, 2018 at 6:11 pm)SteveII Wrote: 1. Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
2. The universe began to exist.
3. Therefore, the universe has a cause.
This argument is definitely 100% valid.
I'm not so sure if it's sound though as what does it mean for something to begin to exist? Don't things already exist? Was there first something nonexistent that became existent and that is what is meant by it 'beginning to exist'? But then what the hell was it before it existed? Isn't 'something nonexistent' an incoherent concept? Don't only things that are contingent 'come into existence' and all that is really meant by that is the form of something changing into the form of something else, and that that something else that it changed into is considered another thing that has begun to exist?
When it comes to the totality of existence itself I don't think it makes any coherent sense to say that there was a time before it existed. Especially when you're including timeless existence as there definitely can't be a time before that.
(April 2, 2018 at 6:07 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Was there a before?
Before what?
