(June 29, 2018 at 1:22 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:(June 29, 2018 at 12:34 pm)RoadRunner79 Wrote: And I think that you need to discuss the reasons for a change.
I'm not saying that abolishing the electoral college would be a blanket good for the nation because it brings up the problem of the tyranny of the majority. Those impulses would need to be checked so that minorities remain protected, be they atheists, religious minorities, racial and ethnic minorities, LGBT minorities, etc.
HOWEVER
The main problem that I have with the electoral college is the fact that some citizens are over represented and others are under represented. For example, California has a population of 39.5 million and 55 electoral votes meaning each electoral vote represents 718,181 people. In South Dakota, with 3 electoral votes and a population of 870,000, each electoral vote represents 290,000 people. If every state had that many people per EV, California would have 136 electoral votes.
This country does not have equal representation either in our elected officials or in our electoral college which violates one of the core ideals upon which this country was founded: that all men are created equal. Well, if we're really equal, then give us all equal representation.
(June 29, 2018 at 12:36 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote: Doesn't the principles still apply even without the issue of slavery though? It's possibly a corollary explanation, but not a necessary one. The reason is because they had less eligible voters,the "why" is secondary. It doesn't make it a racist system. The same reasoning still holds today, and nobody owns slaves. And as you said, it is a compromise. Areas with higher populations do have more electoral votes, and regions of the country with lower populations can't just be ignored. Perhaps we can improve it, but I think that you will still need a compromise and popular vote is not necessarily better.
I only ever talked about a "compromise" in the context of the Three-Fifths compromise.
And it is true to say that we no longer have slaves.
It is also true to say that we have unequal representation in our government and that is ultimately the reason I would wish to abolish the electoral college. I agree that areas of the country with lower populations shouldn't just be ignored, but neither should they have disproportionate power to influence our elections.
Everyone talks about one person one vote but that's not what we have. We have, in California, 718,000 people one vote. In South Dakota, 290,000 people one vote. In Arizona, 639,000 people one vote. In Wyoming, 139,000 people one vote. In New York, 683,000 people one vote. In Florida, which has the same number of electoral votes as New York, it's 723,600 people one vote.
That's crap.
You are only looking at it from one side. Should a couple of states have all the power to decide for everyone else. That's not equal either. And as you point out, California has more votes than Alabama, perhaps it should be one state one vote? Equality Right... each state has equal say! What the electoral college does is make a compromise where more power is given to areas of lower populations, so that they have a say as well (and can't just be ignored). There are a number of states that still have an overwhelming amount of power when it comes to the elections. And this is because they do have larger populations.
One person one vote, is true, and every vote is counted. However just not in the way that you would like. What you say is equal in one way is disproportionate in another way and you have to deal with both sides of that. The office of President is responsible for the whole country, not just those areas with high population densities. This doesn't mean that all men are not equal. And the idea is not about giving some more power than others anymore than it is a racist system. Those you you say have a disproportionate amount of power, still have less power than those who you say are being treated unfairly. This country has always been about giving a voice to those who would not otherwise have it, in a simple majority system.
While I think that the system may have room for improvement, I don't think that arguing "it's not a majority vote" is assessing all sides of the matter or making a case that it's better. It's not meant to be a simple majority and there is wisdom and reasons why it is not.
It is said that an argument is what convinces reasonable men and a proof is what it takes to convince even an unreasonable man. - Alexander Vilenkin
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther
If I am shown my error, I will be the first to throw my books into the fire. - Martin Luther