Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, Round 2

[Tiberius]

Part of me though, wants that to be allowed so the baker's racism can be exposed and his busyness boycotted and go down in flames.

This didn’t happen in the past though, and there’s no reason to think it would happen today. Racists have their supporters, and often people won’t care or can’t boycott. If you live in small town America and there is one grocery store, owned by a known racist, it’s difficult to depend on any white families to boycott his business, because they unfortunately rely on it. The civil rights act was brought about to try and prevent this kind of behavior in the first place, and it worked. Business owners cannot legally discriminate towards people based on skin color anymore.

But...there’s no fundamental difference between a same-sex wedding and a hetero wedding either. It’s only an issue of the sex of the partners.

What if the baker’s religion told him that graduation ceremonies for blacks were against God? Does that change the issue for you?

I’m trying to understand what difference there is. At some point in your mind it becomes not ok. What is the differentiator?

I need to get going, but do definitely want to come back and talk about this bc I am on the fence about it and can see pros and cons and arguments to both sides, depending on which extreme is taken.

Maybe a real quick response would be that marriage itself is considered a religious sacramental ceremony to a lot of people, and so they have certain beliefs surrounding it. Particularly that it is a union between one man and one woman, and that's it. Graduation doesn't have ties to any sort of deep seeded sacramental or religious beliefs, neither does it make sense that it would. So I would call BS on the person who tried to pull that card.

The problem is marriage is considered a religious ceremony by every religion, and it has deep societal ties that predate most religions. Whether you approve of it or not, marriage is now a legal institution as well. You can get married without having to set foot in a religious building.

Now, wedding cake doesn’t have any religious connotations to my knowledge. Why should providing a wedding cake, or any catering for that matter, even come close to entwining with a potentially sacred ceremony?

Or to put it another way, how is the ceremony legitimized in the eyes of a believer who opposes the religious / sacred nature of the event by the presence of a cake.

To add to your point about it being a religious ceremony. Should this baker be allowed to refuse a cake to a straight couple who are atheists? Or who have married before (assuming he is Catholic)? Also, if he does provide cake to atheist couples, or non-Catholic couples, does it change your opinion if he still refuses to provide cake to gay couples? That is, if he is clearly only discriminating against gay couples, should that be legal?

I can understand a minister/pastor being allowed to deny the actual service by the way. I don't think anti-gay priests should be forced to perform same-sex marriages, nor do I think Catholic priests should be forced to perform marriages of previously married people. However there is a gargantuan difference between a priest, who performs a vital role in the ceremony, and a baker, who provides the fucking dessert.