RE: Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, Round 2
August 21, 2018 at 5:28 pm
(This post was last modified: August 21, 2018 at 5:31 pm by Catholic_Lady.)
(August 21, 2018 at 4:02 pm)possibletarian Wrote:(August 21, 2018 at 2:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am curious to know what everyone's opinions are about what the law should be, regarding the whole cake baking thing....
Should it always be illegal for a bakery owner to refuse services for an event/cause he disagrees with? Should it always be legal? Should it depend on which event/cause is being refused? And if so, how to identify which causes can be legally refused and which cannot?
The law is already clear on the issue of gender identity, this is the whole point of what is going on now.
I'm sure both you and I could think up some scenarios that have not been tested yet, but that would not mean that we should withhold judgement on other issues that have already been legally clarified.
If it turns out the message he was asked to convey was full of hate and vitriol, then I'm sure he would have support for his refusal. If it is simply one of love from one person to another and his problem is with the gender of the people involved then it is likely he has broken the (already existing) law.
For instance if you were to walk in and ask for a cake with 'happy birthday to my lovely husband' I'm sure he would happily bake it. If the next day a man walks in and says can you bake a cake for me with the message for my husband ' happy birthday to my lovely husband' and get refused, then how is that any other than discrimination ?
So far as I can tell in the case mentioned in the O.P. the baker had an issue with what the cake symbolised to the customer.
He was asked to bake a cake with pink and blue, the customer said that this was to celebrated the anniversary of becoming transgender.
So far as I can tell he was not asked to inscribe any message on the cake, this makes the refusal even more senseless, I'm sure if for instance they represent a footballs team colours and that was the reason given he would have baked it.
This refusal seemed purely based on what it meant to the customer, there is nothing about a pink and blue cake that could possibly offend.
What are your opinions on refusing to make a generic cake, but knowing that it is for a political or social cause you strongly oppose? For example, if I declined to make a cake for a pro choice rally.
Can an atheist bakery owner refuse to make a cake for a child's baptism celebration if he thought child indoctrination was immoral?
As for writing on the cake, what do you think of writings that are not offensive to some, but they are to others... such as in my case, again, making a cake that says "pro choice" on it.
(August 21, 2018 at 5:02 pm)Tiberius Wrote:(August 21, 2018 at 2:31 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: I am curious to know what everyone's opinions are about what the law should be, regarding the whole cake baking thing....
Should it always be illegal for a bakery owner to refuse services for an event/cause he disagrees with? Should it always be legal? Should it depend on which event/cause is being refused? And if so, how to identify which causes can be legally refused and which cannot?
It depends on the context.
If you say you will make a wedding cake, but won’t make a wedding cake for same-sex weddings, that should be illegal. There is no fundamental difference between the two cakes. You are discriminating.
Same if you refuse to make a cake for an interracial wedding.
Do you think it should be legal for a Baker to refuse to make a cake for a gay pride party?
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
