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Objective Morality?
#35
RE: Objective Morality?
(September 20, 2011 at 7:30 am)lucent Wrote: Absolute morality is morality that is static and unchanging, based on absolute values of right and wrong. Therefore, it is not subject to change due to human opinion. It does not change because God does not change. Therefore, absolute morality is impossible without God.

Absolute morality requires unchanging values for good and evil
Human opinions on these values change all the time
Therefore absolute morality is impossible for human beings

Therefore, humans are left with subjective morality, or morality by concensus. Since right and wrong are values subject to change by human opinion, what is moral is determined by the largest agreement on those values. Under this model, anything good at one time may become evil at another time, and vice versa, due to changing opinions on the values of right and wrong.

Therefore, under subjective morality, the holocaust could be declared morally right. If enough people agreed that the holocaust was good, it would be morally justified.

Therefore, since subjective morality could justify the holocaust it must be discarded as system of morality. The reason it must be discarded is because we know the holocaust is absolutely wrong. We know the holocaust is absolutely wrong because we all have a God given conscience which tells us right from wrong. Since we know the holocaust is absolutely wrong, we know morality is absolute and not subjective. Since morality is absolute, and absolute morality is impossible without God, God exists.

Since there are plenty of people even now who think the Holocaust was a good thing(christians included) your argument is invalid.

An objective(or absolute) morality would not allow deviation. How could it?

Physical laws are objective( gravity, E=mc2) etc.
You might not like them but you have to obey them.

All morality is subjective, because for every act or thought you think is wrong there WILL be lots of people who think it ok(or even fun).

And since there is no "absolute" morality your argument for god is also invalid.
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If you're not supposed to ride faster than your guardian angel can fly then mine had better get a bloody SR-71.
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Messages In This Thread
Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 23, 2011 at 9:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 10:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 10:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 23, 2011 at 11:02 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by thesummerqueen - August 23, 2011 at 11:05 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 11:14 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 1:22 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 23, 2011 at 3:24 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 23, 2011 at 5:36 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 3, 2011 at 12:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 3:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 3, 2011 at 4:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 3, 2011 at 8:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 11:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 23, 2011 at 10:59 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 24, 2011 at 12:12 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 24, 2011 at 1:55 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 5:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by twocompulsive - August 24, 2011 at 2:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 24, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 9:10 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 24, 2011 at 11:35 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by kswheels - August 24, 2011 at 6:09 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 24, 2011 at 8:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - August 24, 2011 at 9:09 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 24, 2011 at 10:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - August 25, 2011 at 3:20 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - August 25, 2011 at 5:56 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 8:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 25, 2011 at 10:18 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 10:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - August 25, 2011 at 2:57 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Faith No More - August 25, 2011 at 10:38 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - August 25, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 10:49 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - August 25, 2011 at 3:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by StatCrux - September 9, 2011 at 8:51 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - September 9, 2011 at 10:50 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 7:30 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 8:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 8:22 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 8:29 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 20, 2011 at 11:54 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - September 20, 2011 at 7:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 20, 2011 at 9:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 20, 2011 at 11:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 4:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 21, 2011 at 10:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 5:08 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 22, 2011 at 6:43 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by leo-rcc - September 22, 2011 at 7:31 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 22, 2011 at 8:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by leo-rcc - September 22, 2011 at 9:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 23, 2011 at 6:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 20, 2011 at 9:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - September 20, 2011 at 10:15 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by downbeatplumb - September 21, 2011 at 2:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2011 at 6:04 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 21, 2011 at 8:01 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by fr0d0 - September 21, 2011 at 9:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 21, 2011 at 8:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 21, 2011 at 10:00 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Cinjin - September 21, 2011 at 11:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 23, 2011 at 6:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by KichigaiNeko - September 22, 2011 at 8:00 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 23, 2011 at 8:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 23, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 5:34 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 7:02 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 7:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 7:55 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 7:59 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 26, 2011 at 8:25 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:29 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Darwinian - September 26, 2011 at 8:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 8:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 9:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 9:34 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 9:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 26, 2011 at 11:21 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 26, 2011 at 11:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 12:39 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - September 27, 2011 at 2:05 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 5:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 8:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 8:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 26, 2011 at 9:04 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - September 26, 2011 at 9:07 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 26, 2011 at 11:29 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 26, 2011 at 11:50 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - September 27, 2011 at 12:47 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 1:49 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Minimalist - September 27, 2011 at 12:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - September 27, 2011 at 3:08 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by lucent - September 27, 2011 at 3:55 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Zen Badger - September 27, 2011 at 7:39 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by KichigaiNeko - September 27, 2011 at 9:09 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by toro - September 30, 2011 at 6:26 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 5:46 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 4, 2011 at 5:54 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by cdog - October 4, 2011 at 6:16 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:31 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:36 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:37 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - October 4, 2011 at 9:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 1, 2011 at 5:19 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Modular Moog V - October 4, 2011 at 11:44 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 5, 2011 at 9:33 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by kılıç_mehmet - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 4, 2011 at 7:40 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 2:35 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 3:11 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 3:16 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 3:28 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - October 6, 2011 at 8:23 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - October 6, 2011 at 3:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 4:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Nappeun - October 6, 2011 at 6:31 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 6, 2011 at 8:48 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - October 6, 2011 at 4:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - October 6, 2011 at 11:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 7, 2011 at 2:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Angrboda - October 30, 2011 at 1:30 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - November 3, 2011 at 1:01 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by downbeatplumb - October 30, 2011 at 8:17 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - October 30, 2011 at 10:46 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 1, 2011 at 5:25 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:21 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 2, 2011 at 7:27 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:35 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 2, 2011 at 7:56 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 2, 2011 at 11:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:32 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 2, 2011 at 7:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 2, 2011 at 7:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 3, 2011 at 3:34 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 3, 2011 at 3:43 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 3, 2011 at 10:07 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 1:10 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 7:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by theVOID - November 6, 2011 at 6:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 8, 2011 at 12:38 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 3, 2011 at 8:51 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 3:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 12:10 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 4, 2011 at 10:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 3, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 3, 2011 at 5:56 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 3, 2011 at 9:05 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 12:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 4, 2011 at 2:50 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 4, 2011 at 11:03 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by frankiej - November 4, 2011 at 11:06 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 4, 2011 at 3:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 4, 2011 at 6:12 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 4, 2011 at 6:57 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 5, 2011 at 3:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Mister Agenda - November 8, 2011 at 2:52 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 10:47 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 1:11 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 2:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by 5thHorseman - November 4, 2011 at 1:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 4, 2011 at 7:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 4, 2011 at 8:06 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 5, 2011 at 12:04 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 4, 2011 at 11:48 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 5, 2011 at 10:42 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 6, 2011 at 12:33 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 6, 2011 at 1:25 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by DeistPaladin - November 6, 2011 at 1:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 6, 2011 at 2:45 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 6, 2011 at 3:39 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Godschild - November 7, 2011 at 2:59 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by IATIA - November 9, 2011 at 8:52 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - November 6, 2011 at 7:03 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 7, 2011 at 8:49 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 8, 2011 at 3:23 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 8, 2011 at 7:44 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 9, 2011 at 2:36 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 8:13 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 10, 2011 at 3:26 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:14 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 9:17 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:20 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by Statler Waldorf - November 9, 2011 at 9:43 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 9, 2011 at 9:46 pm
RE: Objective Morality? - by padraic - November 10, 2011 at 5:02 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by The Grand Nudger - November 10, 2011 at 11:11 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by Captain Scarlet - November 11, 2011 at 9:47 am
RE: Objective Morality? - by orogenicman - November 11, 2011 at 9:58 am

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