RE: Evidence for a god. Do you have any? Simplified arguments version.
October 13, 2018 at 2:56 am
(October 12, 2018 at 11:19 pm)Grandizer Wrote:(October 12, 2018 at 5:38 pm)PRJA93 Wrote: No one has to "let her" have her belief. She can believe whatever she wants, however she wants. It doesn't require me or anyone else, for that matter, to "let her" do it. And pushiness? No, not really. I'm just pointing out the intellectual dishonesty. Pushy would be, oh I don't know, maybe knocking on people's doors to try and convince them to become atheists. THAT'D be pushy. How strange to for you to even chime in like that, considering she was the one insulting me. This is, in fact, a thread about evidence for god, on a forum called "Atheist Forum." Are you surprised a theist is being challenged?
Maybe I'm missing something here then. Because, from what I can read, you were the one who started the insult by saying she's being intellectually dishonest for merely believing in a god?
Yes, this is an atheist forum, and theists, and anyone else for that matter participating in a debate thread, should be challenged if they express views that warrant that challenge. But if the theist's crime is that she expresses belief in a god while acknowledging that there is no evidence for their god, I personally don't see a need to challenge in that case.
I mean, fine, if you want to challenge her, that's your choice. But I guess what prompted me to reply to you was your charge that she was being intellectually dishonest when she came off as being quite the opposite, and that bugged me for a reason. Because I wish more theists were as honest as she is about their views.
And yet, she clearly said she realized she was being intellectually dishonest AFTER I made the claim (though she didn't say so while quoting my post), which I hardly consider an insult, simply an observation of someone's view on a subject. You not seeing a difference between calling out intellectual dishonesty and just straight up hurling insults is hard to believe, but I suppose I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. I don't respect any kind of intellectual dishonesty and I would rather be called out than pandered to because you think I'm nice.
And still, someone saying, "I believe in god even though I know it makes no sense to and there's no evidence to" is still wrong, even if it's "more honest" than the way others approach the subject. Your post to me came off as incredibly biased toward the other user, who I'm assuming you already know and have interacted with before. Whatever, it's no skin off my back, I wasn't the one insulting people over a conversation that lasted less than a few replies back and forth.
(October 12, 2018 at 11:19 pm)Grandizer Wrote:The only real difference is people are taught, seriously, to follow and believe in the latter. Which, to me, isn't much of a difference. An inaccurate fairy tale that one was taught about when they were young is still an inaccurate fairy tale.(October 12, 2018 at 5:42 pm)Kit Wrote: PRJA93 has a point. After all, how many of us would let it slide if someone said, I know I have no evidence to provide for the existence of the fairies that dance naked in my garden at midnight, but I still believe in them and their cavorting beneath moonbeams.
No delusion is above reproach, no matter how kind the individual is.
Well, I consider there to be a world of difference between belief in limited fairies in some garden and a supposedly unlimited, vaguely-defined ultimate being referred to as God. I don't consider theism to be delusional perse.
If you're frightened of dying, and you're holding on, you'll see devils tearing your life away. But if you've made your peace, then the devils are really angels, freeing you from the Earth.